Cllicker Training - Cocker Pup (9mths)

[Muirdubh]

Thought I'd move this topic out of Charlies Chatter...

So... to bring us up to speed...

As long as you don't use the clicker , during the test?,,,I am sure you will do 'ok'?
Funny', that wee dog was retrieving to hand before??...mind you, it didn't have any 'competition'.

Molly never ever retrieved to hand when I got her.
''That would be 'your hand'?
I was told the previous owner only every threw tennis balls for her and ruined her retrieve...
??..I thought she had 'two'?..which one done the 'retrieve', ruining?

I backchained from the delivery of a tennis ball then generalised that with a paint roller, then small dummy, then (when I eventually got it through the post), a large tennis ball type dummy then 1lb canvas dummy... Started in the kitchen where there was nowhere really for the wee dog to go and moved to the 3ft narrow hall that runs the length of my house for proper 'retrieves' and i'm currently working on outside with great success. I find if she goes off the boil I can re-energise her by letting one of the others get her retrieve

How does 'one 'click'.for this excercise?

So...
After classically conditioning the clicker with wee Molly which consisted of pairing it with a treat. Click, treat... Click, treat... for around 30 repetitions... the 'pairing' is tested by clicking and watching the dog... If she immediately looks at you, the clicker of the source of the treat (hand) then you're in business (although this exercise is best repeated 2 or three times so the dog really gets the connection)...

Step 1... Offer the dog the tennis ball....
Handing the tennis ball to molly, it became apparent that although interested, she didn't want to open her mouth to 'take' the ball so the click was given for looking at, then sniffing, mouthing and eventually taking the ball...
Step 1.5... Offer the dog the tennis ball and click/reward if she takes the ball... repeat this until consistently taking the ball.
Step 2... Give me the tennis ball...
At this point I started adding the cue 'Fetch' when Molly took the ball from me... While she was deciding what to do with the ball in her mouth I encouraged her towards me (without getting off the chair) and when she approached I took the ball from her and click/treated... This was repeated and was also the point where I added the paint roller.
Because she liked having the ball or paint roller (and would every now and then lie down and attempt to dissect them) i started to encourage her towards me and count to 2, 3, 5, 10 etc before taking the object from her. This is when she would either offer me a sit or I could 'shape' it by standing up... eventually she only got a click when she sat and looked at me...

Step 3... Move to the long hallway...
This step is just an extension of step 2 with the addition of me throwing the ball the length of the hall... Because my hall is only 3ft wide she had no option but to come straight to me.... Any attempt to go past me was blocked very easily by stepping in her way... This was repeated with the tennis ball, paint roller, tennis ball dummy thing, and small canvas dummy then full size 1lb dummy...

Step 4... Take it outside...
Same as above but without the restriction of the hallway...
We are still working on this because she can still tend to wander with the retrieve object... but she is improving every time. The usual walking backwards encouraging her to me or just walking away totally disinterested technique is used to bring her to me... I've stopped clicking the deliver now because it's fine when she gets to me... She gets a treat on a variable schedule (puggy machine style) on delivery.

I've also mixed the above up with the odd seen 'memory retrieve' thrown in. Something she has done up to 80 yards so far.

Now, I'm not claiming that all went smoothly... There was a lot of trial and error and there still is at times. But the reward for the success and no reward for the errors works great. Now and then if she drops the retrieve too soon (i.e. before my hand gets to it) she gets a 'no reward marker' which for me is 'ah, ah', then we move on. No chastisements only reward for getting it right... Because using this method the dog cannot do it wrong... She doesn't necessarily get it right but nothing is ever wrong if that makes sense...

What has happened is that because she's a wee timid thing, she'd been offering me a calming signal (lifting her paw) when I'd clicked and she was doing this as I took the object... That behaviour is starting to fade now but it's not an issue...

Hope that makes sense...
After a few repetitions she

[Muirdubh]

I should add that I'm also very vocal with Molly, giving her constant encouraging feedback and giving verbal and physical praise when she gets it right (as well as or instead of the treat depending on what we are doing)... It's not just click/treat, robot style... That would work but as Bill once said... it's a cold way to train and giving feedback as well as the click/treat means you can also make a BIG fuss for a well performed behaviour and a smaller fuss for a less well performed behaviour...

[trekmoor]

I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on with your pup Graeme. Sometimes the soft, sensitive types can be very worthwhile gundogs. I'm thinking back to me getting Dax . He was a shivering sack of bones back then but he's a happy, bold little dog now and he rivals Charlie at running in !

I owe our American cousins an apology too. I've moaned about their use of e-collars but I am now reading about clicker trained gundogs being worked over there too. They have beat us to it and have now produced a video or two on clicker training gundogs. Some of those lads have begun to realise that it is another worthwhile tool to add to their toolbox.

Wullie

[Debs]

This is great stuff.
My Cocker was a reluctant retriever & I used the clicker as described in The Gundog Club training guide. Grade One Beginner Retriever.
It pretty well follows Graham's instructions & I'm ashamed to say that I forgot all about it 'til reading this.
She has become lackadaisical with retrieves .So, all fired up now,I am digging out the clicker again.
Good luck Graham.It's very rewarding don't you think?
Deb

[sandra]

An excellent write-up thank you. I used the very same method when my now 5yr old springer was young but without the clicker (only because I didn't know about clicker training at the time) and the reward was praise, I found keeping things calm was paramount. It took about 6 weeks (probably would have been quicker with a clicker!) but it worked and after months and months of frustration at trying to get her to deliver to hand I had a dog that delivered perfectly every time (and still does)

[Muirdubh]

Just a wee update on this one for those interested...

Molly is getting happier about retrieving these days... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H6VcRKjIWg

I sent her using her name to accustom my other dogs to that (not so much for Molly's benefit because she goes regardless of who's name is called but that's for the future training topics).

You'll notice she kited right round me before presenting. I think she did that this time because the picture I was presenting was different from the picture she was used to. i.e. I was standing straight up and holding my phone to film her.

You may also notice that she broke eye contact just as I bent down to take the dummy and looked at my other cocker... I use my other dogs as a tool to make her jealous about the dummies and I think she was just checking in case Bonnie was about to move towards the dummy (she didn't)...

[t jack]

Just a wee update on this one for those interested...

Molly is getting happier about retrieving these days... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H6VcRKjIWg

I sent her using her name to accustom my other dogs to that (not so much for Molly's benefit because she goes regardless of who's name is called but that's for the future training topics).

You'll notice she kited right round me before presenting. I think she did that this time because the picture I was presenting was different from the picture she was used to. i.e. I was standing straight up and holding my phone to film her.

You may also notice that she broke eye contact just as I bent down to take the dummy and looked at my other cocker... I use my other dogs as a tool to make her jealous about the dummies and I think she was just checking in case Bonnie was about to move towards the dummy (she didn't)...

well done Graeme, she has some speed about her!

[trekmoor]

She's going good Graeme !

Wullie

[Muirdubh]

I had a breakthrough with this wee dog today... I was very worried (read depressed) when I discovered that if I clapped my hands or cracked my chewing gum (bad habit of mine) she would switch off completely and just walk next to me with her tail down. She wouldn't chase a tennis ball never mind a dummy and she stopped interacting with the other dogs until we got home.

Over the past 7 or 8 days I started to clap when she was getting fed and when she was just generally excited and then ignoring her completely (ensuring I don't reinforce the anxious behaviour). I did this when the other dogs were there (she draws strength from them) and when out on her own with me. She was very suspicious after a hand clap or gum crack...
I fed her treats and cracked my chewing gum as loud as I could as soon as she got the treat in her mouth (she blinked with this for a few days) and I made up a CD with various gunshot sounds on it and played it at an increasing volume while she was getting fed.

I was starting to loose faith in me (not the dog) until I had a conversation with Robert (Polmaise) who, in his unique way reminded me that if I'm to be a dog trainer of any ilk, then I don't want the easy ones to train. He also reminded me that no matter how much I learn about dog training (of any kind), it's how I implement what I learn that counts and that I should have faith in my ability to implement rather than my ability to learn 'theory'...

So, I kept up with the bangs, claps and cracks and started to get her to do some retrieves in my long hallway with the CD player on the floor about half way along. She had to pass the (by now very loud) gunshot noises in order to get her retrieve (tennis balls and dummies and her now favourite retrieve item, the tennis ball dummy thing). She did all that with ease but sat first she wouldn't retrieve a dummy that was right next to the speaker of the CD player...

So, since by now she was hearing the CD at full volume (I was fully expecting the Polis at the door one of those mornings) I moved the player to the kitchen floor and put it right next to her food bowl and played it full blast while she was eating.

I kept this up as often as the wife would allow it and she didn't seem to be taking any notice of it. I also interrupted her eating to give her some higher value food by hand while she was eating (this also stops them food guarding when me or any of the kids are around them at feeding time).

I've noticed over the last couple of days that she was getting that wee bit more cheeky and 'cocker-ish' so today I took all 3 dogs to some waste ground, tethered Molly and sit/stayed the other two, walked back 40 yards and fired a starting pistol... From that distance, I could only see her kind of sit up a bit and prick her ears. I threw a dummy and sent my other cocker for it. This was repeated a couple of times with Bonnie and my GSP (Wolfgang). Then, I retreated 20 yards and did the same... On the third shot/dummy throw I went over to Molly slipped the leash off and sent her for the dummy. She flew after it as if nothing was ever worrying her. What a relief!

I repeated this a couple of times, while giving the other dogs retrieves and the odd one for Molly, some with bangs some without, letting her run in sometimes and sometimes not... Then, with my last blank, I hupped all the dogs in a row with Molly furthest from me, not more than 5 yards. I fired a shot, threw the dummy and off she roared after it... JACKPOT!

I went home very happy with that

[t jack]

Well done Graeme