A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

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Aimeetess
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by Aimeetess » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:59 pm

Gundogs11 wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:06 pm
Which is more fun for him; "free running/hunting" without you or training with you? If he is having more fun without you than with you then I think you might have the answer as to why he doesn't want to come back. Puppy 'training' should be fun. He must see it as games, not training, and you should be the most exciting thing in his world.
Free hunting without me if I'm not giving him my full concentration. If i have a dummy/treats then I'm more fun.
We are fortune to have a few random unused fenced areas where we live of just cover or grass which is perfect. Didn't use the long line him today and took him into one of the fenced areas of light cover to do some 'seek' work he started working a couple of foot in front of me (instead of at my feet) and done really really well, turning when i beeped twice and is getting the idea nicely. I just put a treat down when hes not looking. I hid a dummy in some cover in the same area and got him to seek that, he retrieved that once. Hes really food obsessed at the moment so been using treats!

Naj
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by Naj » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:51 pm

Edible rewards are perfect if he’s food motivated. You could also do lots of walking recalls. Recall, reward, cast him straight off or toss the food reward for him to chase, then repeat a short while later or do it in batches of thre or four in rapid reps. Then leave it for a few minutes, then repeat. So he doesn’t start anticipating, only recall him when he has set his head to the front and commits to heading off at speed, rather than having his head to the side and not going at pace in anticipation of the next recall.

Naj

Aimeetess
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by Aimeetess » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:59 pm

We have been practicing recall, stop whistle, sit stay and seek hunting for a dummy or treat. He is doing great and the nose on him unbelievable. Takes the lab a few minutes to find a treat and he'll find them instantly, think he'll have a great nose on him for lost birds.
Thing is, he is currently (didn't use to be!) SO treat obsessed he'll find a dummy and just want a treat, or hunt, and want a treat.

Is this really bad?.. :think:

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ips
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by ips » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm

Personally I don't see it as bad, anything that keeps the pups engagement on you has to be good.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.

Aimeetess
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by Aimeetess » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:26 am

Since around 3rd Jan we laid off anything with dummies for a good few days and just done some sit/stay, heel, recall and stop work.
Started to get him to hunt for treats and change direction with 2 peeps, slowly introduced a dummy into it a couple of days ago.

Have also started training 'hold' for a treat in the house, as he use to bring any dummy/toy to hand but won't sit/hold them which took him a day to pretty much master holding anything for a treat!

For my birthday yesterday we went on a 'family' walk which I know is a huge problem for Harley, he runs ahead to far so I did have to use to long line but when off the line kept him close with the stop whistle etc. He came back when called or whistled straight away but he ran on way to far in the last field and I couldn't see him, so did put his long line back on and keep him close, and was glad I did as our collie flushed a pheasant.

Booked our first 1-1 session with a gun dog trainer this weekend so hes just going to have a look and see what he thinks. This morning with a few nice retrieves as he was so keen for the dummy. Placed a blind when he wasn't looking, send him back for it and he ran in a lovely line and picked it up nicely. Straight back, he held it while I stroked his head until I said dead and gave him a treat. Done a couple of 'marked' retrieves, throwing it, then making him heel off lead to send him out for it which every single time he bought it back, sat and held. Then let him chase the dummy a couple of times so it was all exciting and called it a day.

Naj
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by Naj » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:40 am

Just a point about the use of training lines, and management in general. If you’re putting it on after the dog has already been allowed to go to far, not responded to calls to come back & had the opportunity to self reward then you’ve already failed. It’s a horse, bolting, door scenario. Consistency is your main ally however you train and if you’re inconsistent then you’ll get inconsistent behaviours, whether you’re on a family walk or out shooting. :think:

Naj

AndyH
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by AndyH » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:43 am

I've got the same issue with my cocker of him dropping the dummy at my feet rather than holding it, could you explain how you used treats to teach him to hold on?

Aimeetess
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by Aimeetess » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:14 pm

Naj wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:40 am
Just a point about the use of training lines, and management in general. If you’re putting it on after the dog has already been allowed to go to far, not responded to calls to come back & had the opportunity to self reward then you’ve already failed. It’s a horse, bolting, door scenario. Consistency is your main ally however you train and if you’re inconsistent then you’ll get inconsistent behaviours, whether you’re on a family walk or out shooting. :think:

Naj
Thanks Naj - In the last couple of weeks since practicing recall a lot, and his recall has been perfect since and on the walk every time I called, he came back instantly to whistle or voice (sorry didn't put that on the post) but he didn't stay close and couldn't help himself going to far ahead even with me trying to keep his attention, which is why I used the long line so he didn't carry on running to far on and 'learn' more to do so. Is using the long line that way a bad thing?
If he doesn't respond to calls and runs off, I have/would chased him and caught him in the act but luckily he hasn't done that for a couple of weeks and only ever done it twice.
AndyH wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:43 am
I've got the same issue with my cocker of him dropping the dummy at my feet rather than holding it, could you explain how you used treats to teach him to hold on?

Firstly I got a teddy he really likes, made him all excited wanting it and every time he held it i'd say 'hold' and give him a treat as he'd drop it quite fast. Then I increased the time he would hold it for and give him a treat. I then asked him to sit and hold once he knew what 'hold' meant, and gave him a treat. I did have to put it back in his mouth a few times as he would hold and instantly drop, luckily he loves the toy so he didn't mind it in his mouth and it wasn't really a force hold. I then increased (once sitting and holding) to stroking his face, under his chin and making him wait until I said 'dead' and he got the treat. Its taken about 3 days, twice a day 5 minutes and today first time doing it outside. He'll bring a dummy back, sit in front of me and hold it until I say dead (didn't even have to say hold!) He loves food and I've seen about clicker training the hold, but wanted to do it without the clicker.

newf
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by newf » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:01 pm

Sounds as if you got things in hand. :)

Aimeetess
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Re: A blondes attempt at training a Cocker

Post by Aimeetess » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:09 pm

I wouldn't go that far Newf :lol:

Took him out on my dinner and all he wanted to do was run around watching the black birds, pigeons, magpies about 50ft in the sky! Hes a funny thing!

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