To video or not

Discuss working your Gundog or tell us about your experiences be it sublime or ridiculous!
Blackjaw
Member
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:22 pm

Re: To video or not

Post by Blackjaw » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:34 pm

I am starting to try and remember to have club members video all of my training sessions (especially with the pup I got from James), but more so for me to critique what is going on than to share with others. It seems to me, that with everyone having video capability on their phones I might as well take advantage of it and try and better my training.

Cambusvale
Member
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: To video or not

Post by Cambusvale » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:07 pm

Video is just another tool, as Blackjaw stated a useful tool, it shows you the handler what you cannot see, your actions or control. This is why training with others is useful in same context or a pro trainer for that matter. I train alone most of the time like most of us do, as training a dog is one to one in the end. I video to let me see more what I am doing rather than the dog. I am already seen the dog in front of me though at times dogs out of my vision can be playing up unknown to me and is useful in this regard. The other use is just watching dog breeds going about their business be it Scotland or timbuktu. As for being critical I dont give a shit as like out trialing or working all interpretation is in the eye of the beholder, the interesting part is seeing the protractor being the handler and seeing their dog work or not. But this the same in all human interactions, dog handling is no different as getting past your personal bias or thinking yours is the only way, this is delusional and missing diversification and learning through addition of new techniques makes training obtain superior outcome through increasing better average of success. All methods in correct use and timing will get results, but some techniques need application on specific problems and are not required if a set common sense approach is adopted from early age.
Ally Learmonth

Riffmuir Kennels

Cambusvale
Member
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: To video or not

Post by Cambusvale » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:29 pm

I could also add video on points is useful in letting someone who has never seen or been part of a dog on point in my video by seeing what we handlers see in working our dogs very close up be it game/owl/deer in some scenarios I experience on my walks.

Last season I was on a shoot and had a walking gun on my right, my Heidi got a solid point on a cock tucked up in a fence and hedge. I joined the dog and got the gun ready as it was coming out right over him. He positioned himself so I sent in the dog, it was taken with shot when the bird got a nice distance and I finished it off with Heidi getting sent over the fence and returning with the bird. On another day a walking gun had Heidi again on point that turned out to be woodcock, the gun shouted to me my dog was on point, I was behind a thick Rhoddie bush, I shouted to him what to do and he got a flush on the bird some four feet in front of him, he was well chuffed and got more out of that day than he ever expected. In conclusion both gun's had never witnessed a HPR work or had a bird flushed off point so it was memorable in many ways for them both in varied regards. Now if I had my goPro it would be a lasting memory for both these gun but is all too common place for me. So video is useful and not just point scoring.
Ally Learmonth

Riffmuir Kennels

User avatar
ips
Member
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 7:34 pm
Dogs: Eze "cocker"
Location: UK

Re: To video or not

Post by ips » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:59 pm

Judy wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:15 pm
I've found videos really useful but only because I'm experienced enough to know when the poster has "fixed" a piece of film to make themselves look amazing! :lol: The day the handler blew stop whistle and there was a carefully done but obvious (to me) cut in the film before we see the dog sitting. The film where a Lab is shown sitting beautifully, marking everything during a busy drive but the camera never shows the dog below head level so it could easily have been on lead. Another where a 'hunt up and find' looks ever so much like a short mark. These tell me more about the person than the dog's level of training.

I've only made a couple of short videos, on one my pup did a long and successful unsighted seek back but dropped the dummy a couple of times on the way back, some would call that sloppy retrieving but it was the first time she had retrieved a full-sized dummy, to me part of the learning process, to others an opportunity to pick holes. The second one was more interesting, I was intending to throw the dummy over her head, she ran in but ultimately failed cos the toggle caught in my fingers, dummy almost landed on my head and a a very loud sweary word was carefully recorded. :whistle: I can and do train dogs to an acceptable level but I'm sh!te at videos! :lol:

Ips, Ally, none of the above comments apply to your videos. :)
Judy, none taken 😁
Mine are what they are, I welcome critique it makes me better (one hopes) but I do enjoy watching proper ones. I very much liked Allys three dummy one which inspired me to train with three dummies 👍 (yep got a vid of that too of which I have to say I am rather proud of 😉)

Ps
Nicks dvd is very good, I have seen it 👍

PPS
Judy your tale re the dummy throw ( or rather lack of 😁) reminds me of my wife she has been known to throw them behind and even straight up, got one stuck twenty foot up a tree once 😊
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.

User avatar
ips
Member
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 7:34 pm
Dogs: Eze "cocker"
Location: UK

Re: To video or not

Post by ips » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:02 pm

Blackjaw wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:34 pm
I am starting to try and remember to have club members video all of my training sessions (especially with the pup I got from James), but more so for me to critique what is going on than to share with others. It seems to me, that with everyone having video capability on their phones I might as well take advantage of it and try and better my training.
This is the reason I got the action cam, so I can watch it back and see what went wrong. Its also nice to watch old clips then you can guage how far you have come, or not as the case may be 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.

westcountry
Member
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:54 pm
Dogs: Fluppy,Daniel,Patches,Marsha ,Marcie.

Re: To video or not

Post by westcountry » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:30 pm

Videos are great and very helpful. Videos of it going wrong and how we put that right are very helpful. Trainers only post videos of things going right and the others comment on how it wasnt exactly right.7
Look at the videos posted by Cambusvale,fantastic scenery and great dog work.

Saul
Member
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:05 pm

Re: To video or not

Post by Saul » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:12 pm

I would love to see you with your dogs SP, and have a yarn over a day end pint, thats a nice offer and I would dearly like to take you up on it, and agree thats what its about. I think you are in US though ? so don't think it's an imminent prospect but please do ping me a message about where and would love to look you up. I do have hopeful plans to get across for a few weeks, the only thing that inhibits me is the prohibitive cost of taking the dogs, and reluctance to leave them. Way more than human flight costs to USA. Would have extended the invite to you when you were in UK recently too.

I did try to be careful in how I worded what I wrote, because forums are difficult sometimes.

I'd seen a recent post by you which was along the lines "what would happen if you just let the dog hunt and didnt direct it", and others which give me the impression the territory you are hunting over is very different to that in the UK. You've seen it I think, in most areas fields (smallish) hedgerow woods, copse, intersected often by b roads. In the south at least lots of fences, barbed wire, neighbouring farms perhaps only 1-2 fields away and I had the impression you were working in lots more space...in my minds eye maybe more like those vids by Willow Creek Kennels in Minnesota, huge open grasslands, great view of the dog at distance, chukars all over the place :-)

I saw a US vid with a couple of guys in a pickup, and the guy said there's one thermos pointers and two thermos pointers. You just chuck them out the truck, and it takes the time to drink one or two thermos of coffee before they come back and you are ready to work. Sounds and looks fantastic to have that kind of space with HPRs.

Fully accept the old hands saying "take each other on face value" and all that, but have a genuine curiosity for your environment and how you work the dogs, not to prove anything on your part, not calling you out or anything, just would like to see you and your dogs, and vid in lieu of a trip to US cheaper/more immediate if you had any. I suppose the point being that if the environment and what you are working for is wildly different to the UK I could understand why you are often coming at things from a different perspective to the euro posters.

Don't think I can get it clearer than that in text, hopefully you get my genuine interest.

User avatar
ips
Member
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 7:34 pm
Dogs: Eze "cocker"
Location: UK

Re: To video or not

Post by ips » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:18 pm

I fully understood what you meant in your original post Saul, I too am interested in seeing vids of folk working in different environments. Mr sp is in south Africa so presumably very different to UK
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.

Post Reply