different types of dog work

Discuss working your Gundog or tell us about your experiences be it sublime or ridiculous!
Springfield Pointers
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by Springfield Pointers » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:54 am

I agree wholeheartedly with Wullie.

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ips
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by ips » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:02 pm

Miesque wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:03 am
I still think it's a ridiculous statement meant as a sop to the owners of non retrievers. Possibly, the issue here is with what we each think of as "the best" though? I want a dog that leaves no ground uncovered on it's beat, uses the wind well, doesn't miss game and is a pleasure to stand behind when it hunts. I also want to be happy I'm in control of all that action/drive! IPS seems to want a dog that plods around close by until asked to hunt out a bit of cover and then returns to wandering about close by - probably much easier to control but more likely to miss game. Horses for courses - what one expects of heir dog isn't what another wants at all!
Thats actually exactly what I want 😁
At least it is on the estate as its very much a military operation and the keeper wants specific sections moving slowly at specific times. It's very much a stop start affair, odd bits of cover need hunting out to push birds forward but as soon as birds are moving the dogs need to return to handle pretty smartish and go back into plod mode. My problem is that she doesn't easily do plodding she would much rather get those birds flushed and flying which is exactly what I want from her on syndicate shoot. I trained a break from flush rather than a sit from flush and she recalls to me as soon as birds are in flight, she hasn't grasped the idea of recalling just because birds start moving. Yes I know she should recall on whistle or stop whenever asked and yes I know that's my failing and I am working on it continually.

My point really is that like trekmoor alludes to I have a master of all trades and it works well for me most of the time. And as I realised reading the article if there is any truth in what the author says then the type of dog I think I need on the estate (is the type in the article) would in reality be no use to me on the syndicate because I need an all round dog for that, which I have. Furthermore I have done so many days loading this season that I haven't really had the opportunity to give her exposure to that type of beating anyway.

I am still learning and still trying to work out what I require from her and how to proof it. I must say that I am surprised that she is not steadier around high volume of birds given all the dogging in we have done, presumably its a context thing again.

Tis all jolly good fun anyway 👍
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.

Miesque
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by Miesque » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:14 pm

Good dogs can be jacks of all trades though - my oldest ran in a trial on Friday, beating line on Saturday on a commercial shoot and then picked up on Sunday. Oh and he warms the sofa well too! :)

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ips
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by ips » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:47 pm

Miesque wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:14 pm
Good dogs can be jacks of all trades though - my oldest ran in a trial on Friday, beating line on Saturday on a commercial shoot and then picked up on Sunday. Oh and he warms the sofa well too! :)
I shall aspire to that, got the sofa bit covered though 😁👍
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.

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ips
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by ips » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:18 pm

Judy wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:40 am
Whilst you may all think "twaddle" and "journalist" this article from, arguably. a more experienced person says much the same; http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/gundogs/gun ... line-41115
That all sounds very familiar Judy 👍
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.

munstyman
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by munstyman » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:37 pm

You do have to remember than journalism isn't there to tell people what they want to know. They are there, under the watchful eye of their editor to provoke :roll: . I've met DT on a couple of occasions, and he is a thoroughly nice bloke, with I think a genuine interest in gundogs. However thoroughly nice doesn't get readers writing letters to the publication, open ended observations, personal `experience' of a small sample, which may have more poetic licence than fact :whistle: which slurs a group of dogs and their owners....does. :whistle:
I always think of a shoot day, in what ever form it takes for me and my dog, as the evil one trying to corrupt my training, that Ursula coming out of the ocean to lure wullie away from his fishing :lol: The dog will be tempted by things at every corner, my job is to make it not succeed by `control'. The more you learn to read your dog `accurately' the sooner or later you can interrupt that evil luring, those long wet legs, :shock: and guide the dog on its correct path, cool that blood and keep the focus, and wullie can get back to playing with his `fishing' tackle :doh:
Often just by putting the dog on a lead for a while, one or two beats is enough to give the dog the experience and to reduce the over excitement that has been forced upon it. Careful managed exposure ( put it away wullie :lol: ) alongside good training is all you need for a useful gundog in and out of the beating line. Put simply it needs to be trained controlled and experienced and you have to know and work on your limits :think:

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ips
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by ips » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:32 pm

Ha . A pretty random analogy but I get the message MM. I fear however that willie is now having hot flushes 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.

CockerCanuck
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by CockerCanuck » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:45 pm

I probably don't have anything useful to add here. I have never seen a beating line and all I know about it I have learned on this forum. However, It seems to me what we are really discussing is about "fifty shades of grey", not a black and white to teach retrieve or not. I can't imagine a dog deserving to be called a gundog if it did not retrieve. However, there are degrees of excitement and intensity with which they do it.

Learning how you use your dogs in the UK makes me realize that all I know about gundog training is just in the context of rough shooting and waterfowl with spaniels and retrievers. My style of training is pretty basic. You make a young dog mad to retrieve and then almost everything else hinges on that. When he does well he gets a retrieve. I think if I was training with beating being one of my primary activities I would modify this approach. In simple terms I would reduce the emphasis on retrieving and increase the basic obedience sit, heel, come. I would also expose to lots of birds and dummys the dog does not get to retrieve.

I could picture this would result in a pretty useful dog. It might lack the edge of intensity I like for wild bird hunting but it would be superior to my dogs for control in a situation like a beating line.

Naj
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by Naj » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:56 pm

It comes back to horses for courses again. I doubt there’d be any handlers prepared to let their trial prospect spaniel loose in a mass of rhodedendrons or dense cover full of pheasants where they’d be hunting unsighted for any length of time. If you want to keep pristine control and maintain a high level of training of your spaniel in the beating line then you generally pick where and when you hunt it very carefully. It would make sense to just forget about marked retrieves if it was a dedicated beating dog. A beating dog isn’t normally required to retrieve during a drive but may be asked to help pick up after the drive so marking isn’t a requirement. :think:

Naj

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trekmoor
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Re: different types of dog work

Post by trekmoor » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:19 pm

Quote --- " Ursula coming out of the ocean to lure wullie away from his fishing" ----- What brought that on ?

I was still in my teens when big Ursula Undress emerged out of the sea .... I've admired long legs, big hips and a good set of waterwings ever since ! I'd have been needing a guide dog instead of a gundog if I hadn't admired her. :44: I've been a big fan of sea fishing ever since in the hope of having a similar encounter. :lol:

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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