Damaged runners

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Aki
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:01 pm

Damaged runners

Post by Aki » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:24 pm

My nearly three year old Springer has become hard mouthed when retrieving runners. Yesterday he retrieved a pheasant that was hiding under some tree roots on the steep side of a mountain stream. The bird's rear was ripped quite badly. A second bird was hiding in long grass by some bushes. He put the bird down a couple of time in order to get a better hold but the skin wasn't broken on this bird. However, I could feel that a rib bone was broken on one side. Would these would be elimination faults in a Trial?

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trekmoor
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Re: Damaged runners

Post by trekmoor » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:58 pm

I.m.o (I have judged retriever trials and HPR trials) the damaged rear end can be excused because the dog had to extricate the bird from among roots. A dog does not have hands to gently wiggle things out with, all a dog can do is to take hold and pull using it's tooth lined mouth.

One broken rib doth not a hard mouthed dog make either ! That rib could have been broken by shot or by hitting something hard on the birds way down.

Depends on the trial judges I suppose but I would not have eliminated a dog on such "evidence."

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Rough_mut
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Re: Damaged runners

Post by Rough_mut » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:04 pm

Aki wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:24 pm
My nearly three year old Springer has become hard mouthed when retrieving runners. Yesterday he retrieved a pheasant that was hiding under some tree roots on the steep side of a mountain stream. The bird's rear was ripped quite badly. A second bird was hiding in long grass by some bushes. He put the bird down a couple of time in order to get a better hold but the skin wasn't broken on this bird. However, I could feel that a rib bone was broken on one side. Would these would be elimination faults in a Trial?
I don't think your 3 year old dog has become hard mouthed at all?

Sounds like he's had couple runners that needed some motivation to vacate and he got the job done!

I took a bird of a dog that is hard mouthed this weekend. Forget a broken rib, this mat as well been under a car, which then got hit by a train!

Can't answer your question about the trial, but if you have to send the dog for a runner and it's a tight spot, and your dog gets it out then you get faulted for hard mouth I wouldn't want to involved in trailing!

Rm

Cambusvale
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Re: Damaged runners

Post by Cambusvale » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:55 pm

trekmoor wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:58 pm
I.m.o (I have judged retriever trials and HPR trials) the damaged rear end can be excused because the dog had to extricate the bird from among roots. A dog does not have hands to gently wiggle things out with, all a dog can do is to take hold and pull using it's tooth lined mouth.

One broken rib doth not a hard mouthed dog make either ! That rib could have been broken by shot or by hitting something hard on the birds way down.

Depends on the trial judges I suppose but I would not have eliminated a dog on such "evidence."

Wullie
Very much the case of judge dependant, once their mind is made up I have never heard of anyone changing it in a trial no matter you protest. When running your dog you should see more than the judge especially in HPR unless the judge is sitting in your pocket so to speak. I have been put out for two marked birds, one extracting from thick heather on a Grouse squeaker and the dog when finally pulled out caught some grass along with bird and the bird pulled free. The second a squeaker was shot close up the low, very much up the arse and skidded and bumped along a quad track before coming to rest in a ditch. It had two small ribs in that were hard to find but the only thing was the dog collected it holding by the neck and top of breast and presented it thus. The dogs in question went on to win trials, so what do you learn from such things. Main thing is know your own dog, all mine are soft and in some cases too soft. But occurrences happen and you move on, a good judge gives you the benefit of doubt if any in their mind and watch for the next retrieve but that is what I would do if any doubt and many judges agree. But some like to judge negative and its a race to eliminate.
Ally Learmonth

Riffmuir Kennels

Dartmoordog
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Re: Damaged runners

Post by Dartmoordog » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:40 am

Nothing to worry about. My dog will remove the tree to get at a bird that has tucked itself away under roots, I certainly would not want to train that out of the dog.
Be careful what you say about my wife or kids, be VERY careful what you say about my gundogs.

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