HI Guys.
Does it really matter if the parents are not FTCH/FTW, if the dog is only going to be used for rough shooting? Many argue that it is vital, where others say a pup cannot be judged at a young age(obviously), it's what the trainer puts into the dog itself...... WHAT DO YOU THINK?
if you can see both sire and dam work and they do what you want from your dog then surely that's enough, however most don't have that opportunity so resort to independent proof in the form of trial results...of course some who want to trial go for winning breeding as that's what they're aspiring to.
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As a handler, its impossible to make your dog perform better than it is, but very easy to make it perform far worse.
I'd agree I think. Think of it this way, if two dogs produce 6 pups, all of them have the same genetics, and four of them become FTCH/FTWs but 2 don't because either their handler/trainer is not good enough or they do not enter competitions, does that mean that they are any different to their 4 FTCH/FTW siblings? Probably not, although there are of course natural variations. Dogs, like humans are all different - I look nothing like my brother, but he could be the milkmans!!!!
I don't think only strong recently winning trial lines are always the best. Not for the "average shooting man" anyway. In any case top class working ability often seems to skip a generation then pop up again in the grand pups from sires and dams that haven't added any more red ink to a pedigree.
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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Millomite wrote: I look nothing like my brother, but he could be the milkmans!!!!
It made me laugh too coz my dad always said , before I was old enough to understand, that I looked like The Seaforth Highlanders ! He'd then dodge my mothers enraged swipe !
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
Surely you are arguing nature vs nurture with this? I know nothing about training dogs or trial dogs, but id say nurture takes the biggest part. Give me a pup with FTCH X FTCH and it will be a lot more useless than some of you guys would get with a complete inbred mongrel from no shooting lines!
What I can say pretty much for sure is that if a pup of whatever breeding doesn't have it in it to work fast and hard then no amount of nurture even by the best trainer will give it that desire. Buying from F.T. lines makes it more likely the pup won't be a bone idle pot-licker !
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
trekmoor wrote:What I can say pretty much for sure is that if a pup of whatever breeding doesn't have it in it to work fast and hard then no amount of nurture even by the best trainer will give it that desire. Buying from F.T. lines makes it more likely the pup won't be a bone idle pot-licker !
wullie, that's good to know!
My wee springers by monalue cherry blossom ftch, her mums not a ftw, but is a good working dog with millshadow aster and a lot of badgercourt in her lines.
Both Rosies sire and dams pedigree is almost all ftch, but I read somewhere that a lot of the pups ability depended on the dam.
What you're saying though makes perfect sense. Not all pups from a litter get the same training, and not all will have the same ability.
