Tail Docking & Dew Claws Etc.

[Richard P]

Hi Breezybrook

I have sent you a PM
Thanks

Richard

[mustogirl]

Hi Breezybrook

No Newport Pagnell is closer to me than where my friend has being going to at Chipping Norton, it is only about 35mins away.

Thanks

Rich

Is that how much Chipping Norton is charging now? They've always been ultra expensive for everything, even boosters, but now thats bordering on ridiculous!

[vicky payne]

I worked out my charges like this about 5years ago; Docking £10, dew claws £10, chip £15, paperwork £5 (£40). I increased my prices by £5 overall last year as my costs had risen (costs include sterilising, sterilising pouches, silver nitrate applicators, tissue glue as well as chips). Personally I inist on chipping the puppies before sale so they are sold with complete paperwork and to avoid any loopholes or fraudulent paperwork, but I know other vets don't and I can't see I'm ripping people off as my chip price is fair. If a potential docking client isn't happy with the way I do things then they are free to find someone else to dock for them, just as in all areas of veterinary work.

The law does state a vet must do or oversee microchipping...read section 2.

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fa ... ficate.pdf

Before anyone bites my head off I didn't invent the law, and don't necessarily agree with it...but it is the law! I agree this is a kicker if the breeder is a trained microchip implanter and I don't know what the best and legal solution is other than for a trusting vet to countersign the forms? The law also states the certificate issued must follow the above form of words....though many I see don't. In all honesty I don't think many vets ever check the paperwork of docked pups they see (I do, I'm weird) or are so anti they don't care if it's been done legally or not. I don't think anyone is likely to get banged up for doing the paperwork a bit wrong and maybe I seem like a bit of a protectionist arse by being pedantic about the chipping, form of words etc, but I think if the docking law isn't adhered to the risk of losing docking altogether increases...like poor Scotland.

[Rookie]

I got a pup up from deepest darkest England last year and didn't get the paperwork I had been expecting.

The breeders were being advised by the vet that did the docking and didn't pretend to know what they were doing. All the pup came with was the owners copy of the microchipping form, and obviously it's KC reg papers. That vet's leaving himself a bit open to having his knuckles rapped.

[Richard P]

Hi Breezybrook

No Newport Pagnell is closer to me than where my friend has being going to at Chipping Norton, it is only about 35mins away.

Thanks

Rich

Is that how much Chipping Norton is charging now? They've always been ultra expensive for everything, even boosters, but now thats bordering on ridiculous!

Yes, My mate has had a few litters done at a decent price then the last litter was double with a comment of "no-one else wants to do them now a days so i just as well get paid for it"...??????

Rich

[Breezybrook]

I got a pup up from deepest darkest England last year and didn't get the paperwork I had been expecting.

The breeders were being advised by the vet that did the docking and didn't pretend to know what they were doing. All the pup came with was the owners copy of the microchipping form, and obviously it's KC reg papers. That vet's leaving himself a bit open to having his knuckles rapped.

Defra advised me that it is not illegal to own a docked dog without the paperwork. It is the breeder that needs the certificate in their possesion to prove that they had the pups docked within the law, but that most breeders like to provide the new owners with a copy of the certificate, but do not have to.

Perhaps Vicky can tell us if DEFRA and RCVS are giving the same information.
My friends vet was charging X amount for docking plus £6 per certificate (which were photocopies), she had 8 pups so this was going to add another £48 to the bill, so she told him she only wanted one certificate as the breeder, so he agreed to this and she saved herself £42!

If this is correct how many breeders give away all the certificates with the pups and do not keep a copy for themselves to prove the litter was docked legally?

[vicky payne]

It's a bit off the original topic but the legalities of this are really interesting so.....

The word of the law is what is written in the Animal Welfare Act 2006. You can find links to this law via the DEFRA website. I don't rely on their telephone advice though...I rang them last week over a Pet Passport matter and had a much better understanding than the guy on the phone! If you really want the do's and don'ts read this....

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/200 ... 045_en.pdf

What else have you got to do on such a nasty day!!!!!

The bit which says 'For the purposes of subsection (3), a dog is a certified working dog if a
veterinary surgeon has certified, in accordance with regulations made by the
appropriate national authority,' refers to the form I posted a link to above with it's requirement for a vet to chip or oversee chipping.

A vet should not simply be photocopying single certificates, neither should the breeder! This is one of the loopholes I get concerned about and is why I prefer each pup to have it's own cerificate, signed by me and tied to it by the chip number. Otherwise I am not following the RCVS certification guidelines and there is scope for false certification. I agree breeders should keep some proof of legal docking, as should the vet but this could be as simple as the consent form and a receipt. I am confident that if any of my docking clients was investigated I could supply enough info to show they were acting above board.

From this thread it seems many vets who are docking do not fully understand the law, or don't care. It's such a big part of what I do that I'll admit I go for a gold standard approach to protect my own butt! The good news is that the BVA have launched a leaflet about docking to try and help vets understand what is correct and what isn't. And all I can say otherwise is please insist on the proper paperwork from your docking vet if only to protect your own butt...!

[alfinmarsh]

I am very lucky with my vets, they come to me to do the docking and they also agree with me that there is no need to micro chip befoer they leave me. I therefore send the new owners away with the correct paper work and they get their vet to chip the pups when their vet is happy too.

My vet points out that spinal damage can be caused by micro chipping so early and see's no need to rush to micro chip when there is the slightest chance of this happening, especially when the pup can't go out until fully vaccinated

Hope you find an understanding vet who put's you and the pups first, which can easily be done while still adhearing to the law.

I come from the south east so cannot advise on a vet up there, but good luck

[Steve M]

Hi

My breeder had an issue with infection with chipping at 12 weeks so now recomends chipping at 5 months, so I spoke to my vet when I went for the second vacination and he was happy to wait so he had it done at 5 months and all went well so dont see an issue if all parties are happy with this

Steve M

[alfinmarsh]

Hi

My breeder had an issue with infection with chipping at 12 weeks so now recomends chipping at 5 months, so I spoke to my vet when I went for the second vacination and he was happy to wait so he had it done at 5 months and all went well so dont see an issue if all parties are happy with this

Steve M