Wendy M wrote:I’d be interested to know how many people use the same cue to send their dog out on a blind from their side and to send it on again as a redirection after stopping it, or how many use two separate cues, one to send it from their side and another to send it on again as a redirection?
If you are using one cue i.e. “Back” in both instances this would mean the behavior you are asking of the dog is to “go out from me in a straight line.”
If you are using two, the cue from your side would mean “go out from me in a straight line” where as the redirectional cue would mean “turn round and take a straight line back”
I guess it doesn’t much matter as long as the dog understands what you want.
But does anyone have any thoughts on advantages/disadvantages of using one cue over two or vice versa?
Wendy
If the dog has seen the mark', I send it with its name,....if it requires help on that 'mark'? I 'shut my gob' and light a cigarette that would be in training a young dog,and an experienced one! the distance would differ.
I send the dog on a command back', with a blind, if it stops short of where I want the dog, it is usually too far away to hear anything I say', so therefore there is no verbal, just the hand signal used.
I can see no advantage in using either one or two commands in any of these situations if the dog doesn't understand the request.
WGD, you'd be within your rights - judges cannae tell you what commands to give or what language or argot to give them in.
Retriever handlers here (a few of them anyhow) give over casts verbally as "Right!" and "Left!" - but to whose right or left, the dog's or the handler's? Same for those who give "Gee!" and "Haw!" as their over casts - it's important only that the dog understand the communication.
As I say, in N.American retriever field trials most casting is silent - and "literal," which means if I want the dog to go back at a 45-degree angle I give it a left or right arm upraised at literally that vector. This is called, obviously enough, an angle back cast. I can do likewise at 60 degrees or 75.
crackerd wrote: I want the dog to go back at a 45-degree angle I give it a left or right arm upraised at literally that vector. This is called, obviously enough, an angle back cast. I can do likewise at 60 degrees or 75.
MG
Far too much mate!...many dont even use the left hand at all'!!! for these 'masters of body language'
I used to train my field trialing labs angled back casts using angled arm signals . I stopped doing that when I never got a retrieve to do beyond 80 yards in HPR trials. Most of the judges would walk you nearer to a long distance blind retrieve or ..... ask the official picker up to go for it !
I trained Charlie the cocker the angled arm cast about 3 years ago but I don't know if he'd still do it , I haven't trained it for yonks even although it helped win him a test back then.
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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Well, the consensus appears to be call me what you want as long as its not late for dinner. I was training tonight in a group and some used 'get out', some 'back' and some didn't need to say anything because the dog shot off as soon the owner drew breath But thats another story....
If anyone knows purveyors of lead jackets that might fit a small yellow labrador bitch I'd appreciate the details.
arwesa wrote:doesnt really matter does it? as long as you and the dog are consistent and know what you mean.
how will they know what you want if you're using 2 different words? You may as well use the same hand signals and say 'geronimo'
I assume Andrew meant use whatever word you want as long as you use the same one for the same action? Such as Wullie's 'botbot' for 'sit'.
I used to use 'out' for beside me and 'back' when the dog was stopped away from me. I then changed to 'back' for both with a new pup, sometimes I forget and find myself using either at random and/ or **** off! My dogs can't wait to run away from me whichever. I guess it's body language which is most important then.
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
arwesa wrote:doesnt really matter does it? as long as you and the dog are consistent and know what you mean.
how will they know what you want if you're using 2 different words? You may as well use the same hand signals and say 'geronimo'
if you want to use geronimo you can...or barbie, snoopy, sod off... or anything else that takes your fancy.if you can teach the dog the cue and be exact with your signal AND be consistent with that irrespective of where you are (e.g. competing) then the dog will know what you want of it and if you repeat the cue the dog will repeat the action. you know our dogs do what they do because we've trained them to do it (the good and bad) and usually its our lack of consistency in training and then competition that confuses the dog, it looses confidence, it learns to be come self employed and then suddenly isn't listening. I've noticed as I get more consistent and specific so do the dogs, if I'm sloppy and inconsistent with my hand signals then how can I expect the dogs to be accurate and consistent?
so....if you consistently use a different cue for going straight back from a stop infront of you for a blind to lining the dog up and sending it away from your side then there is no issue what so ever (some might even argue its clearer). Indeed having different cues to send a dog away from your side can also a good thing in certain situations...depends on how you choose to train(or not) your dog. its a personal preference
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As a handler, its impossible to make your dog perform better than it is, but very easy to make it perform far worse.
that would be in training a young dog,and an experienced one! the distance would differ.
with my next dog I might use "come here" just to watch people's expressions when I say that and the dog runs the opposite direction.
But thats another story....
