Ok, haven't posted about this problem as we are slowly working on it, however tonight something happened that actually made me cry!!!
I'll start at the beginning and where I think it all started to go wrong...
My lab had no issue it seemed with loud noise as a pup, however, there are two pheasant drives where the guns stand right next to our kennels. The first couple of shoots of last season I was not able to be at home.
She is now terribly gun shy!
We have been very slowly working on this with the starting pistol at VERY long range - where its actually hardly audible, we were having a little success.
Tonight I had her out and gently gave my hands a clap before throwing the dummy, she flinched, I sent her for the retrieve, she went out, picked it and wouldn't come into me with it!!!!!!!!!!
She has always given me an extremely fast return and beautiful present and then this!!!!!
With encouragement and me running full pelt away in the opposite direction she came in and presented the dummy, but it took her about 10 minutes for her body language to revert back to normal and for her to feel at ease walking beside me again...... I'm not ashamed to say I cried!!!!!!
I know what we have to do as regards desensitising and counter-conditioning her but I now know this is going to be a VERY VERY long road and hopes of a shoot day this season are now not looking even remotely likely.
Many of you will be shaking your heads and rolling your eyes when you read this especially after my posts of "just do this and just do that"!!!!!
AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! Very demoralised tonight...
Wendy
Massive problem!
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beth.james
Re: Massive problem!
I can't offer much advice, since I think you do know what you need to do, and I'd only be saying what you already know.
But I can offer sympathy, maybe it's because I'm a fellow female (
), but I know the feeling. It's not so much that your dog hasn't done what you wanted and has seemingly gone drastically backwards, I think it's more that your dog seems to be scared of you, and understandably, that hurts...
I think you know that you and your dog will come back from this, it's all a question of time and serious patience and understanding
All the best
But I can offer sympathy, maybe it's because I'm a fellow female (
), but I know the feeling. It's not so much that your dog hasn't done what you wanted and has seemingly gone drastically backwards, I think it's more that your dog seems to be scared of you, and understandably, that hurts...I think you know that you and your dog will come back from this, it's all a question of time and serious patience and understanding
All the best
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Stacia
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Re: Massive problem!
Don't give up hope yet. I do feel for you as I had a gunshy GSP due to dogs being shot in the kennel area where he was. I did manage to get him to tolerate shot but not enough to take him shooting. However, in the place you live, with so many pheasants later on, I am sure you can pair shot with something very pleasant ie game.
It must be extra disappointing for you as you have worked so very hard with this dog. Maybe it isn't shot she/he is afraid of but of you suddenly making a funny noise, my Lab is very frightened when I sneeze.
Edited to add that I have just re-read your post and see that she is gunshy. You may get over it but if you don't then all the work you have done will be very valuable for your next dog and this dog will have enjoyed her training so far very much.
Jelinga
It must be extra disappointing for you as you have worked so very hard with this dog. Maybe it isn't shot she/he is afraid of but of you suddenly making a funny noise, my Lab is very frightened when I sneeze.
Edited to add that I have just re-read your post and see that she is gunshy. You may get over it but if you don't then all the work you have done will be very valuable for your next dog and this dog will have enjoyed her training so far very much.
Jelinga
Last edited by Stacia on Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Hepe
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Re: Massive problem!
I'm sorry to hear that, Wendy and NO, no rolling eyes. Ï feel so sorry for you and i would have cried too, i think most of us would have. I won't tell you to give up but you might consider getting a new pup to take a bit of heat off your current one. That way you can relax and give your dog the time she will need while you two work on this problem.
Helene
Helene
Re: Massive problem!
No rolling eyes here either....Hindsight is the only exact science and sometimes sh1t happens. All we can do is deal with it and learn from it then move on, hopefully you can get your lab over it.
Would this help at all. ... http://www.amazon.com/SOUND-THERAPY-FOR ... B004KNGP9I you would obviously have to play it at very low volume for a start and not reassure her at all if she reacts so as not to reinforce the fear reaction, maybe start playing it while she's eating?
Rascal
PS Get the other half to either move the drive or the kennel.....
Would this help at all. ... http://www.amazon.com/SOUND-THERAPY-FOR ... B004KNGP9I you would obviously have to play it at very low volume for a start and not reassure her at all if she reacts so as not to reinforce the fear reaction, maybe start playing it while she's eating?
Rascal
PS Get the other half to either move the drive or the kennel.....
General Dogsbody
Re: Massive problem!
Put your dog on a lead, bring another dog along and get that to retrieve when firing the pistol, and make a fuss of it in front of your dog. Your mutt should start to realize the other dog is coming to no harm, plus it’s getting rewarded - which brings a jealousy aspect into it.
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Stacia
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Re: Massive problem!
I was going to suggest that as well Rascal when I came back on line! My pup was brought up with the CD which the breeder called "Crash, Bang, Wallop" playing in their kennel. However, I was going to say can you bring your dog into the house and play it so that you can see how she reacts, she could be scared in the kennel, even if it is played at is quietest. To start with it should be almost imperceptible and you carry on doing what you would do in the house and not giving any indication that you have even noticed. Gradually, so very gradually, turn it up so that it is just background noise and life goes on as normal around it.
You said you had some success with the starting pistol so you could continue with that as specific training.
My GSP could cope with shot with all the shoots around us eventually, just the imperceptible flick of his tail showed that he had noticed. Maybe if I had continued he could have gone shooting but unfortunately he had epilepsy and any stress put him into a fit, so I didn't press it further. There is hope. I trained him out of it by pairing every time there was shot something pleasurable happened.
Jelinga
You said you had some success with the starting pistol so you could continue with that as specific training.
My GSP could cope with shot with all the shoots around us eventually, just the imperceptible flick of his tail showed that he had noticed. Maybe if I had continued he could have gone shooting but unfortunately he had epilepsy and any stress put him into a fit, so I didn't press it further. There is hope. I trained him out of it by pairing every time there was shot something pleasurable happened.
Jelinga
Last edited by Stacia on Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Massive problem!
forget all the training and steadiness stuff, get the dog revved up, get it running in, as stated get it being competsative with another dog. fire a shot when the dog is on the way out. I can't believe after all the posts which have displayed an enourmous amount of patiance you suddenly feel dejected after this one attempt.
I don't have the fancy jargon for it nor do i need it, the dog is not gunshy although that is the generic term, from what you describe its nervous nothing more nothing less.
Finally lets be logical you may feel you will undo all your work by letting it run riot, but then again what use is all thay work if its afraid of bangs. some may sugest food and bangs but to be honest I wouldn't you have a dog that will normally retrieve so build on that.
I would suggest a few minutes a day and you'l see a difference in a very short amount of time maybe a fortnight.
Finally forget guns and pistols get some party poppers and take the guts out, the action and sight is something the dog will not see and is less likely to unerve it.
good luck and stick with it
I don't have the fancy jargon for it nor do i need it, the dog is not gunshy although that is the generic term, from what you describe its nervous nothing more nothing less.
Finally lets be logical you may feel you will undo all your work by letting it run riot, but then again what use is all thay work if its afraid of bangs. some may sugest food and bangs but to be honest I wouldn't you have a dog that will normally retrieve so build on that.
I would suggest a few minutes a day and you'l see a difference in a very short amount of time maybe a fortnight.
Finally forget guns and pistols get some party poppers and take the guts out, the action and sight is something the dog will not see and is less likely to unerve it.
good luck and stick with it
Dranwedis Retriever Results
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jas_williams
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Re: Massive problem!
I have a very nervous spaniel that was nervous of shot, we worked through it with patience and time.
I started by taking lilly to one of her favourite areas for hunting with some other confident dogs when she was at distance get a helper to pull a party popper with the streamers removed. At first I had a nervous reaction and she would come back to me tail down and unsure I chose to ignore this reaction I also had a similar affect of hand clapping causing a nervous reaction, 5 min later do the same again. Once this had been done for a number of weeks Lilly started to ignore the party popper, at this point the party popper was paired with a retrieve, so that now when the bang happened a retrieve was thrown allowing her to run in and just have fun. Then the same task was carried out with a starting pistol, in as many different places as possible.
Once the party poppers and starting pistols were good then it moves onto dummy launchers and shotguns, it takes time with a nervous dog, weeks and months, sometimes you go backwards sometimes you go forwards, sometimes a few days of the dog just sleeping on it helps.
I think it took me 6 months to a year for my spaniel to be happy, even then a strange event can send her into a tail spin. But last year at the age of 6yrs she did her first season beating, 2yrs after starting gundog training, yes we have a few challenges, whilst waiting for the drives to start she is sat in the nearest bramble bush (as its safe) watching my every move waiting for the off, but will hunt like a demon once the drive is underway. The shouting and stick bashing of a beating line was also stressfull for her, but it's all down to time and patience.
Lilly has issues but she is a great obedient dog who is part of my pack no matter what, she lives to hunt and beating allows her to enjoy a day out with me in the country jumping through hedges rivers and mud, what more could a spaniel want.
Jason
I started by taking lilly to one of her favourite areas for hunting with some other confident dogs when she was at distance get a helper to pull a party popper with the streamers removed. At first I had a nervous reaction and she would come back to me tail down and unsure I chose to ignore this reaction I also had a similar affect of hand clapping causing a nervous reaction, 5 min later do the same again. Once this had been done for a number of weeks Lilly started to ignore the party popper, at this point the party popper was paired with a retrieve, so that now when the bang happened a retrieve was thrown allowing her to run in and just have fun. Then the same task was carried out with a starting pistol, in as many different places as possible.
Once the party poppers and starting pistols were good then it moves onto dummy launchers and shotguns, it takes time with a nervous dog, weeks and months, sometimes you go backwards sometimes you go forwards, sometimes a few days of the dog just sleeping on it helps.
I think it took me 6 months to a year for my spaniel to be happy, even then a strange event can send her into a tail spin. But last year at the age of 6yrs she did her first season beating, 2yrs after starting gundog training, yes we have a few challenges, whilst waiting for the drives to start she is sat in the nearest bramble bush (as its safe) watching my every move waiting for the off, but will hunt like a demon once the drive is underway. The shouting and stick bashing of a beating line was also stressfull for her, but it's all down to time and patience.
Lilly has issues but she is a great obedient dog who is part of my pack no matter what, she lives to hunt and beating allows her to enjoy a day out with me in the country jumping through hedges rivers and mud, what more could a spaniel want.
Jason
