Butlerstown Buddy

[paul spaniel]

also can u just say how many quality bitches did buddy have ??

[coverbuster]

I think I have touched a nerve.Well I can only go on my own experience.Which is not trialling and working tests.
Where I hunt is for a minimum of game in tough country where a dog is expected to face cover for 4-5 hours min.
The vast majority of people who I know that went down that Buddy road ended up disappointed.As for Tevez I also had pups
off him of absolutely no grade. Just look at some adverts now where people advertising pups proudly proclaim that the pups
have no modern trialling in them.Why do you think that is? because of their high quality?I only joined this discussion to
voice my opinion.I am not alone either.As for not having a clue , 30 years with spaniels in tough country with good animals that can do the job
they were bred for should account for something.
I know what I am looking for in a dog.That doesnt include light boned white whippets , highly strung nervous wrecks that need a rabbit pen to start hunting.

[Polmaise]

FWIW?
Paul, I assume is talking from what experience and knowledge he has from the lines.
His 'sometimes curt nature on the forum', leaves me looking like a pussy cat
He does say what he thinks! , and any post that would contest that?, would require clarification!?
...............................................................................................................................
Don't get any knickers in a twist?,,,I used to do that through 'passion' ?
It ain't worth it ,when you are faced with 'text', rather than the 'eye'?

[paul spaniel]

bramble taff was one of the hardest going spaniels ever, buddy again was a mad hunting dog and so is tevez, none of these 3 needed rabbits to get them going and i can say from seeing the above dogs none of them shyed away from cover or needed alot of game on the ground to get them going, maybe its the quality of the bitches that where mated to these dogs i do not no but all i can say is that those old irish lines never needed 100s of bunnys to get them hunting, from the pm u sent me yeah there are a few dogs u mentioned that needed alot of free hunting to get them going and there pups seem to need alot of game access as well, i totally get your point though mate..

[toxicshot]

Reading this thread and other older ones that have similar views I thought I would attempt to put some meat on the bones. What is a good dog/bitch what is a lot .
Everyone has their own ideal dog some trial others shoot while some multi-function, the following is from UK records and only features 3 dogs and 3 bitches that most possibly have at some point in an extended pedigree .All six having been listed as top producers of FTCH in there day .
Out of the 6 it’s divided equally 3 not being made up while 3 being FTCH.


FTCH Kenine Robb Of Rytex sired 265 litters producing 1695 progeny of these 15 became FTCH
FTCH Badgercourt Druid sired 173 litters producing 751 progeny of these 13 became FTCH
Hales Smut sired 58 litters producing 13 FTCH

Spudtamsons Skidaddle whelped 17 puppies from 11 litters producing 7FTCH
Gorsty Gruach whelped 28 puppies from 4 litters producing 5FTCH
FTCH Rytex Ria whelped 43 puppies from 6 litters producing 4FTCH

[kinkyafro]

Interesting. Surely any comparisons are only relevant based on pups that ended up in trialling homes?

Of Kennine R's near 2000 pups produced, how many of them went to trialling homes? Fair chance most of the bitches mentioned produced pups while in trialling homes and were bred from with trialling in mind?

[toxicshot]

The OP by Bent was--> [Ftch Butlerstown Buddy? its offspring; has it sired a lot of ft chs,]

From that various thoughts and opinions have been expressed, again it’s not the only thread concerning the same basic principles of what dog or bitch produces top progeny.
For assessing the working ability of Gundog breeds at the highest level is of course field trials. Fortunately these records do provide some long term measure of dogs/bitches that have eventually helped to improve a breeds working ability via its direct or longer term progeny.And nowadays health prospects to.

FTCH Badgercourt Druid x 13 FTCH only one of the mating’s to a ftch bitch.
FTCH Kenine Robb x 15 ftch 5 of these were to none titled bitches

Any Records of pets or working but not competing dogs doesn’t often represent a breeds working ability, to a breed unless it’s produced progeny that figure in field trial results.
For a factual breakdown on the ownerships of FTCH Kenine Robb you would need to research yourself, I would hazard a guess that most of his pups were to working or Trialing homes with an unknown proportion being for pets etc. All I can add is remember that’s only uk FTCH some of his offspring went to other countries and obviously some gained ft awards possibly far more than got titles.

If any comparisons can be drawn then it should be with other dogs as mentioned in the OP , how many ftch has or will he eventually sire! Potentially if its 3 then it would be in some very good company .[cresset cristo,Hamers hale, markdownmag, peter of o`vara, redhead riley ,rytex rex] to name a few.

As the old saying go’s put the best to the best and hope for the best

[WGD]

As the old saying go’s put the best to the best and hope for the best

And that includes dogs to handlers, not just dogs and bitches!

[toxicshot]

As the old saying go’s put the best to the best and hope for the best

And that includes dogs to handlers, not just dogs and bitches!

Yes to true , hit the nail on the head

[commonshall]

I know Butlerstown Buddy well and have not only competed against him in many trials but shot woodcock over him in the dirtiest of cover. He is one of the hardest hunting spaniels of recent years in Ireland - you don't become an International FTCH without being a top drawer hunter - but he is also the very best shooting spaniel and a very natural hunter from an early age.

He gives 100% all day every day.

Regarding his qualities as a stud dog - I think like any stud dog you must take into account the number and qualities of the bitches he has covered. Buddy is not a pretty dog and has had very few decent bitches. Where he has had decent bitches he has produced. I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that he sired the dog that come 3rd in this year's Irish Championship - OFTW Clodahill Ian.

Buddy's sire Bramble Taff was Spaniel of the Year for 3 consecutive years in Ireland. His full sister was International FTCH Poppet Rocket - a phenomenal hunter - who has produced the goods including OFTW Hollydrive Theo who is the most popular stud dog in Ireland by some distance at the moment. I have in my own kennels a neice and granddaughter of Buddy and both are the most natural hunters I have had in quite a while.

The choice of stud dog is very much a personal choice - but be in no doubt as a hunting dog Buddy is up there with the best of them.