The use of the word 'stay'

[duke]

Hi its me again...
Firstly sorry for the million and one questions. Im a total beginner when training a gun dog and i want to get everything absolutely right other wise i could quite easily end up with a bad working dog!
Im considering opening a thread called 'Dukes question thread' lol!

Anyway this is a question for the people with working dogs! Which is probably a huge mejority!

Does anyone use the word stay? Ive used it since day one up until ive decided to work her. Now i dont know if this is a problem but for her to be steady once i have told her to sit i then have to say stay otherwise shes not so steady and gets up and walks off. Is this going to cause me an issue when i eventually work her? Will i have to tell her to stay or leave it every time a birds shot? Shes very eager like any dog to retrieve a toy/dummy so if i say leave it she looks at me and waits for me to say 'fetch it'.

Thanks in advance!
Duke

[Wendy M]

If you want to re-train "Sit" to mean "Sit until told otherwise" then go back to the beginning again; Sit the dog, say "good" or use a clicker or somehow mark the moment of the sit and then give a reward.

Then begin to extend the time before you mark and reward. 1 or two seconds at a time at first.

Then begin to move away before coming back to mark and reward.

Hey presto!..You have added duration to your sit without having to say "Stay".

Wendy

[Polmaise]

Hi its me again...
Firstly sorry for the million and one questions. Im a total beginner when training a gun dog and i want to get everything absolutely right other wise i could quite easily end up with a bad working dog!

Duke

I think 'Duke', If you try and get everything absolutely right,You will end up with a confused working dog
You can say anything you want to the dog,as long as it understands the signal ...I have found however', that if that early verbal command was linked with a 'picture' of Body posture?.you can later drop the verbal',and use the picture, for these 'Masters' of body language

[Morten]

Hi Duke

I think you will find that people do this in different ways, but for me I dont use the word Stay - once you have told your dog to sit, it means sit untill other command is given - so sit and stay commands is for me the same. To me it seems like your dog know that it is told to retrieve every single dummy you have thrown. I would train the sit command daily for some time - throw a dummy while you are reasuring your dog to sit, and say sit - good dog - sit.. while the dummy is in the air, so the dog know you want it to sit and not fetch. If you find your dog steady enough - walk slowly to your dog and praise the dog by touching its head saying sit - good dog - sit. walk slowly to pick up the dummy, walk back to the dog and praise it once again for sitting. Every 3 th or 4 th time send your dog for the dummy... sorry for me writing I am Danish !! regards Morten

[esmerelda]

I've been working with a Gun Dog Trainer, and we use the "wait". We use stay to mean stay where you are and do not move till I get to you. The "wait is until I ask you to do something else. Like when you need to go back for me, left or right. Enjoy your training with your dog I am.......not my first but this time I have a very stubborn DOG, I had a bitch but that was when I was much younger in the 80's....

[duke]

So shall i stick with stay/leave it? Or re-train? Ive relised theres lots of different ways to control my dog. I guess theres no right or wrong way...?

[Naj]

If your dog will sit 'steadily' to 'stay', you could drop the 'sit and just use 'stay''. Or retrain the 'sit' command, as others have suggested. It doesn't matter what others do or say as long as you are consistent and the dog understands the command/picture that you are presenting to it. For example, I don't use 'sit' or 'stay', I use 'hup'. There is no magic word, they are all capable of working the same if applied correctly.

Naj

[Springfield Pointers]

I have never used 'stay' - there is no use for it. If your dog is sitting then getting up again, the next word should be "no"

[coco]

If you use a hand command when you say sit ( and most of us use body language, whether it was intended or not) try repeating the hand signal as you move away. This also keeps the dog looking at you.

[duke]

Thanks a lot! By reading the posts i think i need to drop stay, i guess she will always know what the word stay is now anyway and i could use it as a last resort or the hand signal i use, she recognises this as well.. Thanks for the tips on sit until told otherwise ill put that into practice tonight, any guidance on how long a training session should be? Shes 1 year old.

Thanks again.