The use of the word 'stay'

[Naj]

Every one is different. Some like to use an intensive 'square bashing' session and are very regimented, others take a more organic approach. You should be training the dog in little ways every time that you are in its company. I do all of the sit/stay/steadiness/recall/retrieve 'training' around the house/yard/kennel in our daily interactions & at feed times. This is then extended into the exercise periods. I do very little, if any, formal training. Heel training benefits from a more intense session but you can easily sour a dog if spending too long on sit/stay/recall routines. A compromise would be best for yourself with a dog of that age. Perhaps set 10 minutes out for a mixed routine of sit/stay/recalls, heeling & retrieving, interspersed with hunting/exercise sessions by way of reward. If the dog begins to show signs of confusion or boredom or things start going wrong, don't just push on because you will only make things worse. Stop & move on to something else that it can do. And have a think about what is going wrong & try again later with a different approach. Some think that training is simply a physical thing but it is really about communication, and any problems that you will have will be due to a lack of communication, as in the 'sit/stay' problem that you've outlined in this thread. Some like to repeat commands as Coco suggested, but others prefer to give one command. Some use physical corrections, some titbits, some a combination of the two. You're just going to have to work out what is best for you & your dog. And if it is a spaniel, don't neglect the quartering training - it will never get bored of that!
Naj

[duke]

Thanks Naj for your great reply, is there a tread on here to point me in the right direction for quartering trianing? Retrieving i have an idea but no idea where to start for quartering!

Much appreciated!

[Springfield Pointers]

One can teach a dog to do somersaults by lifting your hat twice if you are so inclined, but I have always believed that a bird dog should be trained with as few commands as possible.

[duke]

Thanks for your input! Its what i was trying to say in my original post, not getting everything perfect but reducing the amount of commands i give.

[SLB]

I use wait a lot of the time, "Wait" means wait until I give you another command. Sometimes the command is just a come to me or a release. I use wait for food too and retrieves as in wait until you are told to get it. Their stop whistle means the same. Whistle blows - they sit and wait.

Stay is indefinite. If I use the word stay my dogs know to stay put until I come and get them. I have to get them from a stay, I can't use a release word with it otherwise it wrecks the training.

If that makes sense.

[coco]

When teaching the sit ( or stay) I always make sure that The dog does not move. If this means not going as far as you intended or for as long then that's ok for me. I don't give repeated commands, but might give an extra one the split second the dog is about to move. In the early days I'll also give a treat when I return. Think what I'm trying to say is that a shorter successful stay, will form a better foundation than trying too much and having some 'failures' . In time the dog will not move until you return.
I also go to a training class where they like to use wait and stay. My 15 month old lab seems to recognise the difference, and when a wait command is given, she is anticipating another command, but on a stay is more relaxed and sits in a more comfortable way.
Like naj said, we also practice the sit stay at home, and at every training session.

Jacqui.

[Springfield Pointers]

When teaching the sit ( or stay) I always make sure that The dog does not move. If this means not going as far as you intended or for as long then that's ok for me. I don't give repeated commands, but might give an extra one the split second the dog is about to move. In the early days I'll also give a treat when I return. Think what I'm trying to say is that a shorter successful stay, will form a better foundation than trying too much and having some 'failures' . In time the dog will not move until you return.
I also go to a training class where they like to use wait and stay. My 15 month old lab seems to recognise the difference, and when a wait command is given, she is anticipating another command, but on a stay is more relaxed and sits in a more comfortable way.
Like naj said, we also practice the sit stay at home, and at every training session.

Jacqui.

At home I offer very little instruction. Other than "bugger off" or "out" Home is home for me and my dogs, but hunting is a different matter. At home I feel you should use a different language. Sit and Stay is certainly not something I would advocate at home or in the field. One command only. The "wait" is a good one too as one doesn't necessarily need the dog to "sit" but you want it to stop. I also use the command "Slow" together with with a downward faced open palm when I want to move a dog on carefully and the birds have relocated. This is different from a normal "get on" which may bust a covey if the dog takes off at it's usual pace.

[coco]

I like the 'bugger off' command - have to add that one to my list - lol!

Do you a hand signal to accompany it?

[Judy]

I remember visiting a lady I didn't know very well, she went to the kitchen to make coffee and I sat in a nice armchair. Her dog kept pestering me so I muttered F***k OFF! dog went and a disembodied voice from the kitchen said "I'm glad somebody else uses the same commands as I do".



I have used 'sit, stay' for years for that was the way I was taught, these days I tend to just say "stay" to the trained dogs and the dog sits and stays, I guess that's because I rarely teach down stays so there's no confusion. "Stay" means sit there until I say otherwise, "wait" means hang about there for a second or two while I open the car, gate, put leads on, whatever.

[Andrew]

I use the the command "stay" usually with a hand signal, whether the dog sees the hand I don't know it's more out of habit.

Sometimes you need to think of the action you are about to take and decide from there, opening the boot of the car straight after a drive. my dog will try to jump in before the cage is open, so I'll say stay or wait, I don't expect the dog to sit while I do this. they do learn as time goes by
Climbing a fence or jumping a ditch is a pain if when you alight on the far side the little sod is where your feet are supposed to be, even worse when they decide to move into your launch position immediately before take off.

My advice use what you find comes natural, its tone of voice that will win the day

Out of interest to those that say sit means don't move until you get another command. What command do you give the dog in a walk up when you move on?