views on my ess regards drive -fear

[Damo152003]

Hi
In short my springer jack is 6months old and very fearful of people and built up areas nervous wreck.Yet with the presance of a dog jack can be fine with people. Now jacks nose is glued to the floor ,always in think hedges etc loves to hunt ditches always seems to be following a scent and seems to quarter a little,which i have never trained.
Now where we have our training they do shotos in the next field gunshot sound as never bothered him full of confidence in the field and is so happy. Like night and day with his confidence it the two enviroments.
Now my question, is my springer rare regarding his drive or is this run of the mill stuff? Only reason i ask is were thinking of re homing jack only for the reason if little jack is going be far happier with someone who could work him might make our decsion easier rather than him being with us where he quite often gets scared of traffic and people at the local shops.
Were not saying were getting rid of him but its always in the back of our mind as were always trying to push for something he dosnt like yet he may have such a good head for hunting he may be far happier to do what hes ment todo..Dont get me wrong jack loves life when hes in a field but when we try do evry day stuff like walking him its a challenge because of traffic and people.Now i think if someone were to work him he would be fine with people because hes i n that enviroment he loves.
Cheers for reading this long boring post but may make life a little easier for us on your views. Please be honest regards if he has gundog potential or not. Thanks Damien.

[tiernin]

He's only 6 months old still very young if you want to re home him to a working home do it now .
If you want to keep him you need to introduce him to the things he's scared of slowly what area are you in ? Is there a a good trainer near you?

[Rookie]

Please be honest regards if he has gundog potential or not

I seem to remember that you'd been going to see a gundog trainer with him, I'd be asking the trainer that question because he's seen the dog.

As a matter of urgency I'd probably concentrate on socialising him and ensuring that he becomes happier and more confident in all the environments you need him to be comfortable in rather than concentrating on the gundog stuff. That doesn't mean you have to do nothing, but make sure the important bits which will ensure that he will fit into your lifestyle are covered thoroughly. Even gundogs need to be comfortable with people.

You don't necessarily need to confront his fears head on to start with. Try just taking him into town on a quiet day and having a seat on a quiet bench with him for a while. As he grows in confidence you can build up to busier areas and seeing and hearing all the things that he finds more frightening but make sure they're not right in his face and don't let folk approach him an insist on patting him to begin with. Let him go to them in their own time. You could also consider taking him along to a basic obedience class, as long as it's well run. Yes, he'll get an occasional fright, most dogs do even as adults but now is the time to deal with it. It's probably not going to sort itself out, you need to help him get through the period in his life where he is fearful, it's normal for all dogs to varying degrees.

Most importantly, make sure that you never reinforce fearful behaviour.

[Damo152003]

HI Thanks for the reply. Yes we have a gun dog trainer like you say. we have asked him but he said he isnt to sure pretty much said what you did.Like our trainer says he finds it hard to understand because hes fine with him etc, Anyhow we had a behavioulist come round cost a fortune and pretty much said agen the same thing. waste of time.
I think the thought of re homing him is last resort really if we dont get anywhere but like you say even gundogs are ok with people so maybe that woudnt work.
I have been doing what you said with some good results but went back to square one the other day which really gets you a little wound up!
His hole body shakes when we go to these built up areas when hes in this fearful state so hard to try deal with!
When we got him as a pup he was a little frieghtened then but we thought he was shy but was a good thing with him being our first dog! All the other pups were fine with us.
Well thanks for that post given me some more motivation to try agen were going try take a friends dog tomoorow to see if this helps .
Thanks Damien

[Rookie]

Take plenty of time, weeks and months if necessary, to build his confidence up.

Slowly, slowly catchy monkey...

Out of curiosity, did the behaviourist go out with you and see first hand how Jack behaved?
What exactly did he advise?

[Springfield Pointers]

At 6 months this dog is very young. You say you've been to a trainer but how much socializing and desensitizing have you done with him? It can take dogs a long time to get used to busy environments and you cannot fairly expect him to be confident in all situations at this age. If he is nervous in certain places anticipate this and have a plan to make him experience it in a positive way.

[jas_williams]

I have a spaniel very similar in mentality to yours if not worse, she is now 7 a lovely dog great worker happy in all environments. But it took time, I had her from a pup at 6 weeks, she was the pup at the back of the kennel scared of everything when not out in the field off lead. If I was out side the house you would think I beat her she would crawl along on her belly.


I took her every where to school to watch the kids, to the shops, to work and sat outside tesco. I then got fed up with her lack of progress and just let her do her own thing, I would exercise her in the mornings and evenings, she loved running round the fields an training exercises she just wants to please. But modern life was too much, but slowly so slowly she got better. At two I took her to a gundog trainer, she would work fine on her own but the trainer speaking loud enough so the group could hear freaked her out and made her shutdown. But out with me in the field quietly easy and gently she was great.

At 3 I introduced her to the starting pistol and. Party poppers it took 6 months to get her to be happy. I would pop the party popper and lily would drop flat to the deck scared, or go off and sit in bramble and not come out. So I would go and get her and start again another day, little by little I could see she was getting better.


My wife complained to me why was I forcing lily to these things, she was great in the house, she was great in the field, an honest little dog if I could get her working.

At 4 she went to her firt shoot, great until we got near the guns, if there was plenty of game about. But if close to the guns she would take her self off and bury her self In the bramble for safety

I would ignore her and let her be until I had to move again, get her out and continue, as long as I was moving foward she would be fine, over the season it improved eventually.


In summary, my dog got there it took 5 years,I have a great shooting companion and friend. I could have not taken her shooting and taken one of my other dogs but Lilly just got under my skin she wanted to please she obviously wanted to be with me she enjoyed being out and about even if the world scared her silly, she would try and do what I wanted.


There was never any chance of me getting rid of her, I learnt a lot along the way we learnt together and took our time, when I bought her she was just a pet, at two gundog training started, at 4 she became a working gundog, I now beat regularly on a commercial shoot and get complemented on my dog.





Jason

[Springfield Pointers]

Jason. Was this dog properly introduced to shot? Taking an uninitiated dog of any breed to it's 1st shoot with multiple guns is a seriously bad idea, as is "party poppers" to see how the dog reacts. Acceptance of gunfire is not a genetic predisposition in working dogs.

[Damo152003]

morning all Jason wow gives me hope and now i know im not the only person! The chap who came out pretty much came throught the door sat down for 2 hours talking about loads counter conditioninhg training stuff etc. Was a little annoying really he was more about the training side and charged £175 and at the end said jack is something he cant deal with!! Yet we told him over the phone what hes like.He did nothing with jack as he was scared.
Anyhow he has advised very slow build up to his fear and clicking for good behaviour and distract him from the fear starting, easier said than done he isnt bothered by treats out side the house he just wants to put his head down and when he is fearful just shuts down.
since having jack we have taken him morrisons at night sat on a bench taken him pets at home every where he goes every where but hates it. I also take him work see people there but just hides under a chair.we do a lot of walking hes fine with people in open places or alot better shall i say and great with people if they have a dog ..strange.
For the last 3 weeks i have been going the same place its called trentham gardens shops etc semi rural. Building up very slow getting him out the car and very slow each day building the distance up to the shops been going great but he went back to square one the other day as he got scared over some noise!
Il just keep doing it slow hopefully with any look we can sort this well he is young!
Thanks everyone for the post really helping.

[RoseHolly]

does he play outside? does he have a favourite toy? will he play with a tennis ball?

I would avoid taking him anywhere at the moment where you know that it will cause him to shut down, if he has hit a point where he has shut down then you have taken him too far too soon, you need to introduce him very slowly and build up his confidence, it takes a long time and a lot of patience.

Also in regards to people, i would tell people to ignore him, dont let people approach him or try to pet him, dont let them give him treats, if people can ignore him it will give him time to realise that people are not threatening. Also as an idea, you could try some Adaptil spray on his collar when you take him out and possibly a thundershirt, just to help him with his fear, this alone will not stop his fear but working along side everything else might just give him a bit of support. I know a lady who makes coats for fearful dogs that have printed 'please give me space' on the side, its a useful tool when trying to introduce a fearful dog to places when you dont want people coming up to him

If a noise frightens him while you are out, i would ignore his reaction, say nothing, turn round and walk back to the car and go home, tomorrows another day.

I have a fearful resuce springer, we have been to obedience class for the last 18 months, she loves it now, but it was a long slow introduction to the group, and the help of all the others in the group ignoring her until she got her confidence, she will now happily approach people in class for a fuss, but it took alot of patience, she also has a fear of noises, if i hear a noise and she has no reaction, then click and treat, if she reacts to something i will just walk her away, to give her some space from it