working distance for cockers

[kevbeaumont]

since day one i have took both my cockers out one on one basis and have always tried to work them within 20yards of me when quartering etc but the probs i have is when i work 2 together it all goes to pot big time and they start runnig straight lines i am unsure if it is lack of concentration as i can stop them and they do listen but i am forever on the whistle turning them and dont want to bore them to bits with the whistle , they are only 9 months but when one on one individually i couldnt ask for better dogs, i am hoping that within time and age of the dogs they will mature and this will stop and advice is welcome
cheers
kev

[Amberquest]

I'd stop running them together for now at least. Have you tried working one and keeping the other at heel, what happens then?

[Springfield Pointers]

since day one i have took both my cockers out one on one basis and have always tried to work them within 20yards of me when quartering etc but the probs i have is when i work 2 together it all goes to pot big time and they start runnig straight lines i am unsure if it is lack of concentration as i can stop them and they do listen but i am forever on the whistle turning them and dont want to bore them to bits with the whistle , they are only 9 months but when one on one individually i couldnt ask for better dogs, i am hoping that within time and age of the dogs they will mature and this will stop and advice is welcome
cheers
kev

Young dogs will start racing each other and their "range" (from you) becomes insignificant as they look to each other as a marker. Pointing dogs will follow each other (trailing) so I'd say run them one on one until they realise they are working for you, and they beging to understand what's required. If you want to just take them for a jolly, make sure it's a sterile place and that they know it's playtime not worktime.

[Rab1981]

Why would you need to work 2 at a time ?

[Cockerman]

Mine are used mainly for beating
If you are going to use them for beating then,

At 9 months they where 5 metres away each side
From my experience that doubles when in the beating line for real.
Remember there might be a beater at the side of you with dogs
you dont what them covering the same ground. Plus you will be moving
alot quicker than when you are training.
Train them separately and then heal one next to you and hunt the other, then swap
then put them out together when a bit older
For me when training 20 yards is to far

[Naj]

They're only 9 months old so will improve. If you exercise them together they may simply think they are being given a free rein as they would when exercised. This is just a training exercise like any other, so you could develop it from here or leave them till they are older when they will have a more established pattern & be focussed more on hunting than on each other, if that is the case now. The other problem in hunting 2 spaniels together is that you don't want to be stopping or turning them both when one is at fault, otherwise it gets very stop-starty & can lead to confusion. When I used to hunt 2 together I always used individual names to attract attention & then turned them with a hand gesture, allowing the other dog to keep on with its job. I would prime them first by training a 'calling' exercise, where I would sit them down together & then call them individually a couple of yards to their quietly spoken name. I'd do this randomly & in a way that, eventually, one dog would have to by-pass the other while it held position, which is a greater temptation for them to break the sit. I also did a lot of retrieving with them sat together, sending them by speaking their name. When it came to hunting together you could just turn them by name & everything moved along smoothly. As regards range, it all depends upon what you intend using the dog for. In a beating line 5 yards may well be wise. I shoot over my dogs & for me it wouldn't be of any use at all & I always work to 15 yards either side.

Naj

[Cockerman]

At 9 months they where 5 metres away each side
From my experience that doubles when in the beating line for real

Naj, what I am saying is that I train at that distance, the dogs will double that
distance when beating,

[Hepe]

How soon do you begin asking for a young dog to heel while another is working in front? Is it one of those things you just decide now is a good time or do you wait for some maturity before or maybe start very early? Not overly concerned since i just have one spaniel right now but who knows about what the future holds.

Helene

[trekmoor]

I agree with cockerman. Train for quartering at 5-10 yards maximum and out working a dog will pull out on you to double those distances ,but if you have allowed 20 yards in training the dog will still want to pull out even further and you end up with a dog that thinks nothing of hunting 40-50 yards out from you .... like my cocker Charlie !

I don't think hunting two dogs at the same time is a good thing either. If the dogs are quartering properly to you then 2 dogs cover no more ground than one would. Walk one at heel as the other hunts then swap them around, doing that keeps them fresher and keener.

Wullie

[Naj]

I understand what cockerman & Wullie are saying, and there is bound to be a little 'drift' on a pattern, especially so if the dog is to be an effective game finder, but this should be a matter of taking in the occasional few extra yards to investigate a scent or patch of cover on the edge of its pattern, not taking in double the length of its normal cast. If a dog 'trained' to quarter out to 10, 15 or 20 yards is habitually hunting at 20, 30 or 40 yards then its training is surely at fault. I would expect that Charlie pulls because he has become accustomed to sweeping-up after drives, but when he was originally trained would have quartered to whatever distance Wullie had trained him to. I agree that 10 yards either side might provide a sensible pattern for a beating dog, but the notion of training to 5 yards in anticipation of the dog eventually being allowed to pull out to 10 yards I find problematic, in that a cast of 5 yards either side doesn't give a pup much opportunity to develop its natural pattern. I suppose there is also the presumption that a dog is easier to control when kept closer to you. I can understand this at distances of over, say, 30 yards, but there surely isn't anything in it when you are looking at 5 - 10 yards, or 15 yards, for that matter. I guess you just have to figure out what works for you.

Why hunt two dogs together? Because its good fun & good training/exercise. After saying that, I wouldn't hunt more than 1 in the beating line, the second dog being kept at heel. Many years ago they did have Field Trial competitions for braces & teams of spaniels.

Helene, when I used to have more dogs & less time, I would take anything from 2 - 4 dogs (at different ages & stages of training) out for their twice daily exercise, call them in to heel & then hunt them one at a time, (tossing retrieves over them as they hunted, to whatever level of training they were at) rotating them with the dogs at heel as we went along. If I had a pup then it simply slotted in with the dogs at heel & was given its chance to hunt when its time came around. Today I do most of my retrieving when out with whatever dogs I have, usually when at exercise.

Naj