Yup you certainly did yourself no favours taking them on a shoot such as the one you describe and as you say you are paying the price........It’s not insurmountable though.
With regard to the first dog I would’ve pipped him and waited as long as it took for him to sit again, he’ll get quicker at it very quickly....
If he’d broken for the dummy the dummy thrower could have picked it first and he’d have not been rewarded for it and I’d have recalled him, rinsed and repeated. By issuing a second command you are devaluing the first, sit means sit first time around and as soon as
he learns that for himself you’ll have a much more responsive dog.
With regard to the second dog you say he knows when he’s out of your reach and he’ll always know that....................
And he’ll be worse in a live situation if you are not careful. The dog is simply learning that he must do it when he’s close
but if he’s away from you he can do as he likes... So I would let him run in, safe in the knowledge that the dummy thrower can pick the dummy before the dog gets to it. Again
he’ll soon learn that if he runs in he gets no reward but if he listens and works with you not because of
his proximity to you he’ll get the reward of a retrieve too.... My thoughts are that if you long line him, again you are enforcing compliance and the dog will know when the long line is on and when it’s not and you could find yourself back to square one.
I’d also work on the stop whistle separately and I would do a bit of stopping on the whistle on the way out to a seen retrieve with the help of a dummy thrower and try stopping the dog on the outrun and redirecting onto a blind assuming that the dogs understand directions...?
Then occasionally let them get the first seen as a memory and occasionally have the dummy thrower pick it, it’s all about control and the dogs
learning for themselves what works for them and what doesn’t and learning to work with you. Don’t overdo the last exercise though as you can make a dog “sticky” on being sent on a marked retrieve, expecting to be stopped. If I do this in a session I always end the session with the dog being sent either for a couple of memories or a couple of marked retrieves.
I guess what I’m saying here is you need to let the dogs work it out for themselves and they will.
Running out to a dog and scruffing it or tugging it’s lug or whatever works with some dogs and not others, they just learn when they can get away with it and when they can’t.
Rascal
