Training an HPR

[crackerd]

As for the 'lesser breeds', some breeds are better suited to competitive sport & will always outshine the others, hence the numerical supremacy of Labradors entering & winning field trials.

Ah, but Naj, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Are Labs better suited to competitive sport, or did competitive sport become better suited to Labs? But yes, there is that numerical supremacy - and to give you an idea of it in the US, more dogs (98% of them Labs) will enter one weekend's retriever hunt tests across the country than will compete in all the AKC pointing dog field trials and pointer hunt tests combined over a year's time. Spaniel field trials - open only to two breeds - don't exactly get "swamped" with entries either, and spaniel hunt tests are barely staying extant. The last "master hunter" spaniel I made up - and that's been going on 10 years now - competed against a standard, and good thing too - because in the seven tests she ran to get six "passes" that earned the MH title, there were a grand total of 19 other dogs entered in those same seven tests - an average entry of fewer than three dogs per test.

It surely doesn't mean to say that the other breeds necessarily lack merit or working ability, just because they are less capable of competing against labs at that particular discipline. If you expect them all to work in the same manner as a Labrador, or, in the case of HPRs, say, a GSP, then there would be little point in having the different breeds & their idiosyncrasies.

This is essentially the precepts the hunt test program - both AKC's and NAVHDA's utility testing - were based on, and it's the right way to go, particularly for rousing interest in the "lesser (numbered) breeds" - sorry the parenthetical part got left out in my earlier comment and implied something disparaging. Numbers aside, I certainly don't think any of the lesser breeds I've had down the years were any less capable as gundogs.

MG

[trekmoor]

I must admit to being baffled as to why so many ....over 40 ???......HPR breeds were developed. I think they probably developed mainly due to breed isolation ? There are differences in the temperament of the various HPR breeds and to some extent I think those differences were due to the expectations of a breed in various parts of the continent. Some of these breeds were "keepers dogs" and were imbued with protective instincts. Those dogs were often used to pull down wounded deer and to kill vermin too .... foxes, feral cats etc.

GSP's were used as vermin killers as were G.W.P.'s. and Weimaraners. I remember the first dogs of these breeds in Britain and when I decided I wanted one I had to look very hard at "lines" to try to be sure I did not become the owner of a hard mouthed dog. In Britain we have been breeding away from hard mouthed dogs in HPR's for more than 25 years now.....but there are still some around. These breeds are often used for deer stalking in Britain but I think it is mainly our gamekeepers who place value on their dogs killing vermin. On the continent there are still trials held where the competitors have to prove their dogs will kill vermin ..... I'm told the competitors all bring their own cat to the trial !

This comment may upset a few applecarts but I think many GSP's and possibly members of the other HPR breeds too , have better noses than labradors..... I am well aware having had field trial winning labs and field trial winning HPR's that scenting conditions play a large part in this but taken overall I think it is true. It is also true however that labs usually handle far better than HPR 's do. The HPR's instinct and training to quarter ground and not to run dead straight out into the wind works against it during blind retrieves. I have a feeling this may also be true with Flatcoat Retrievers but to a lesser extent. HPR's .... the good ones, are also more independantly minded than handlers want in their labradors , this too works against the HPR if it needs to be handled during a retrieve.

Wullie

[Blackjaw]

Here is a link to some pics from a couple of trials held in Eastern Washington/Oregon this weekend that some may find interesting http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.p ... ost4552950

[Naj]

I think we're both in agreement on this, MG, & I didn't consider your remark disparaging, especially since I'm aware that you've worked with some of the minor/lesser breeds. Apologies for my clumsy use of 'surely'.

Interesting pics, Blackjaw. Are the dogs wearing tracker/beeper collars or e-collars?

Naj

[Blackjaw]

They are tracking collars. I am not up to date on their use, but I know during some (maybe all) trials only the judge has access to the tracker and calling for the tracker means you are disqualified, but atleast you can go find your dog.

[Naj]

So are these 'foot' trials or horseback trials. Or is it only the judges who follow on horseback?

Naj

[Blackjaw]

I think these were both walking trials.

[trekmoor]

What was done to find a "lost" dog prior to tracking devices being invented ?

Wullie