Springer's hunting instinct

[druid]

My springer is 3 years old, and I bought him part trained 18 months ago. He is generally good with dummies, but when it comes to hunting, he almost always ignores me, and hunts off on his own, often ignoring the recall whistle.

I have had profession help, which has been great, but my trainer says that this dog is always going to be difficult, and I am always going to be 'after' him.

I do some form of training most days, and have got right back to basics (heel and sit stay), but once I get to the hunting stage everything goes out of the window.

I have found myself at the same stage as this time last year.

I know that the dog would be better picking up, however, I don't shoot, and only have opportunities for beating.

I am at the end of my tether, and i will try anything. i put the work in, but just aren't getting anything from him.

Any ideas would be gratefully received!

Thanks Sally

[Rascal]

Hi Sally,

My honest answer would be after reading through your previous posts, I don't think you are ever going to get on top of this now or find the silver bullet answer for which you are searching......

And if your dog ignores your recall whistle or self hunts away from you then I'm afraid picking up is not an option either.

You may have to accept that what you've got is what you've got and keep him as a pet, look on it at as a learning experience and get a puppy and start from scratch being careful not to make the same mistakes as you have with your lad now.....

Meaning don't take the pup for long walks and allow it to hunt out of range until he/she is fully trained....

I think that is where your problems stem from with this dog anyway..

Rascal

[druid]

Thank you for taking the time to read my previous posts and answer.

I think you are right, but I am so disappointed, and I suppose I am looking for that magical answer! We can't have a puppy at the moment, due to other commitments, so I guess we are stuck with a pet, and probably beating without a dog.

Thanks again

Sally

[tobester]

Thank you for taking the time to read my previous posts and answer.

I think you are right, but I am so disappointed, and I suppose I am looking for that magical answer! We can't have a puppy at the moment, due to other commitments, so I guess we are stuck with a pet, and probably beating without a dog.

Thanks again

Sally

Hi Sally

I have been looking for the same magic answer for the last five years. Best bit of advice I got was last season - just enjoy the experience of being out beating.

I know I can't hold my dog when there are pheasants around and there is no point in fighting it.

From my experience, most people out beating have this issue to some level or other. When you get the opportunity to see someone good out, it is a real pleasure to watch and a reminder of what can be achieved. I have a stack of things that I wish I have done with my dog and hope to do with my next dog! Just waiting for the opportunity ...

Toby

[swess]

Hi Sally,

Rather than give up on your dog, have you thought about trying to find the use of a rabbit pen??
The biggest problem with dogs that have learned to pull on and self hunt is that its very difficult to get out there and sort the problem when it is happening, which is the only time that it will have any effect. I you can find someone near you who has a pen, and can spare the time to show you what needs to be done, it is quite possible that you might be able to overcome it. That being said, you might always have to be on your toes!! By getting the dog into a pen you effectively force it to go wrong in an environment where you have much less distance to go to intercept it. As always, a pen is only a tool to help and in itself isn't the be all and end all, but if you get the dog sorted in a pen then you can carefully carry on outside with the odd trip back as and when its needed

hope that might help!!

[trekmoor]

There is an alternative to just keeping your dog as a pet. It could be retrained with the use of an e-collar. Normally I would not suggest that but used properly it would work. My suggestion is that you join an American gundog forum. Tell the forum users very honestly what your problem is and then ask for suggestions for books and/or videos of spaniel training using their methods which should include e-collar preparatory work and actual e- collar training under real hunting conditions.

If I was a dog I think I'd rather go through a thoughtful e-collar training programme and then go to shoots than be a house pet for the rest of my life.

Wullie

[jonboy1968]

Hi Sally. Had the same problem with my 1 year old Springer. Then I managed to get him "ball crazy". How if he knows I have a ball on me he is totally focused on hunting for me. His reward is a few retrieves. He now never goes out any further than 20 meters.

If you get him "ball crazy" get him hunting for balls.

The other thing I would recommend is reading "the trouble with Springers". It's an article in Totally Gundogs by Pippa Mattinson, the author of Total Recall.

[alpha]

Hi Sally,

Rather than give up on your dog, have you thought about trying to find the use of a rabbit pen??
The biggest problem with dogs that have learned to pull on and self hunt is that its very difficult to get out there and sort the problem when it is happening, which is the only time that it will have any effect. I you can find someone near you who has a pen, and can spare the time to show you what needs to be done, it is quite possible that you might be able to overcome it. That being said, you might always have to be on your toes!! By getting the dog into a pen you effectively force it to go wrong in an environment where you have much less distance to go to intercept it. As always, a pen is only a tool to help and in itself isn't the be all and end all, but if you get the dog sorted in a pen then you can carefully carry on outside with the odd trip back as and when its needed

hope that might help!!

My opinion is if he won't stop or recall on relatively game free land then putting him in a pen will be a recipe fir disaster unless you go I with a bloody brilliant trainer

Love the ball idea though.

And in fairness most of the shoots I go on the majority of dogs ARE steady as you wouldn't let an unsteady one loose with 300 birds in front of it!

[BLM]

There is an alternative to just keeping your dog as a pet. It could be retrained with the use of an e-collar. Normally I would not suggest that but used properly it would work. My suggestion is that you join an American gundog forum. Tell the forum users very honestly what your problem is and then ask for suggestions for books and/or videos of spaniel training using their methods which should include e-collar preparatory work and actual e- collar training under real hunting conditions.

If I was a dog I think I'd rather go through a thoughtful e-collar training programme and then go to shoots than be a house pet for the rest of my life.

Wullie

I totally agree with wullie there are a number of so called right offs working happily in the beating line thanks to the proper use of an e collar

[hartshay]

You just need to find the right shoot.

Some driven shoots have really heavy cover and fewer birds..I have noticed that they often have the wild ones working very successfully ....to be honest the routine on these has shoots is ...start of beat let dogs off..wave them goodbye. Work with other beaters to hack a path or two through assorted jungle usually on steep slopes or deep boggy patched. Meet dog by the guns as it tears around looking for you pegged pheasant. Guns get some shots..everyone has a laugh and the craic is good.

Don't take the 'wild ones' on shoots where a bit of scant cover crop holds 500 birds (and the keeper who walks with a labrador at heel and who only likes the sound of tapping sticks....

Horses for courses really ...