Qest12 wrote:I think these methods go back to when spaniels were hard as nails and nothing fazed them – it was necessary to get a bit hands to get the message across. I think that hard, head-strong attitude has been bred out of them as we keep breeding from the most biddable dogs, the biddable dogs that are easy to train and win trails.
Try getting an Irish one Maybe a reason more Irish studs are coming into mainland blood, so we don't end up with a load of unworkable putty?
Who is to know this dog is not an head banger, If i tried doing this to my bitch she would fold I can assure you her tail would not be wagging, she is the soft biddable type which has just be mentioned, to biddable IMO.
I guess no one is right and no one is wrong, we agree to disagree and that's what keeps us moving forward with new ways of training a certain type of dog.
It is what it is, I also agree from the publics view it does not look good at all. We have enough to deal with without videos like this being thrown about.
I was going to keep out of this butI have to agree, its not the kind of video for public viewing, we have enough strife for wanting to shoot nice fluffy birds and animals without perceived cruelty to the dogs.
The dog, from what I could see of its body language, was far from being a head banger, I think that was what annoyed me as much as anything. It looked like it didn't have a fecking clue as to what the guy wanted.
Anyway, I think we might have exhausted the subject!
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
EssGrouse wrote:Last 2 post.... Quality And understanding
Who is to know this dog is not an head banger, If i tried doing this to my bitch she would fold I can assure you her tail would not be wagging, she is the soft biddable type which has just be mentioned, to biddable IMO.
I guess no one is right and no one is wrong, we agree to disagree and that's what keeps us moving forward with new ways of training a certain type of dog.
It is what it is, I also agree from the publics view it does not look good at all. We have enough to deal with without videos like this being thrown about.
Yes totally. One needs to adapt to the dog in question, I don't see a hard dog in the vid though it must be said- just like I don't see any ear lifts. The application of correction is daft though in this case, from what I see I should just reposition the dog time and again at each move- heck if it had to be done 50 times I bet the dog will give in first (more likely I wouldn't get to five).
I don't like hard correction if I ever had another dog that needed it then it would be a choice of moving it on (honestly) to someone more suited or destruction (if it was proving dangerous).
Just curious as to the difference between Irish and English bred dogs? Surely they can't be that different? I know that there is a difference between some pointers on the emerald isle as compared to Britain, I understand that to be something to do with the quality of the wild birds (Red Grouse?) and the cover in Ireland?
Out here we have some good dogs that come out of the Eastern Cape generally because of the quality of the cover and the fact that the Greywing Partridge is a beauty to hunt with pointing breeds because they covey up and sit very very tight. Dogs coming out of the Eastern Cape are usually known for being big runners. In the Western Cape they have the Cape Francolin (now called "spurfowl" - but to all intent and purpose a partridge) The Cape Francolin is prone to running like a rabbit when discovered and as such it is murder to train young dogs on as you always battle with steadiness. The cover in the Cape also doesn't lend itself to an easy start for pointers as you can only see them 50% of the time, and that 50% of the time is when the buggers get into birds, and before you know it you have a terror of a dog to rein in. Great country for Spaniels though
kent wrote:I don't like hard correction if I ever had another dog that needed it then it would be a choice of moving it on (honestly) to someone more suited or destruction (if it was proving dangerous).
I have always tried, when training, to make things happen in such a way that the dog believes he thought of the idea first and then tell them how clever they are after the fact, I usually find it works better.
I'd refrained from commenting so far since I'm fairly new to gundogs (I've got two springers - one is three years old, other one is two - and they're my first dogs since the family golden retrievers of my childhood).
Anyway, if, when I got springer number one, I'd seen that video and thought it was the norm/routine for how gundogs are trained I would've been really put-off (it does look like the dog is being grabbed by its ears).
Also, I've had comments made to me by an obedience trainer about gundog training being "really harsh" and from another dog owner about gundogs not misbehaving because "they've probably had it beaten out of them" - things like that video just add to these kind of misconceptions.
Maybe a reason more Irish studs are coming into mainland blood, so we don't end up with a load of unworkable putty?
