Lab runs around to escape situations she doesn't like

[Fran]

Right I've had another read and my thoughts are :- You're making a big deal of this and your frustration is very clear to the dog, consequently so is she..

It won't happen on a long line or in a confined space because she knows she has no alternative which is one of the reasons I don't like long lines, dogs aren't stoopid they know when they are on a line.. In a confined space have you been getting after her and giving her a telling off?

How much recalling and sitting are you doing with the dog? Rather than force compliance work on getting the dog want to comply and don't overdo it so as to bore the dog build on it gradually...

You say it happens in free time but not in training what are you doing differently in free time as opposed to training? Does free time come at the end of a training session or at the start?


Rascal

I have never chased after her to tell her off, but I always "correct" her when something wrong happens (when she stands up from a sit, moves from a stay, etc). Don't get me wrong, I don't hit or scruff her, I put her back in place firmly and quickly, without fuss, then reward her when she is in place. Of course, I can't do that when she runs away, and she perfectly knows it.

I don't do much recalling or sitting training anymore, not separately anyway. Both are used in the global training (recalling when she has taken the dummy, sit/stay while I'm playing fetch with myself or while waiting for a direction, etc). I still reinforce the recall with a treat from time to time, but it doesn't seem to be enough to motivate her in all situations. I might get back to very high value treats when out in the field, but I'm afraid I'll become a walking food dispenser if I do so.

The free time can be either at the start or at the end of a training session, there is no difference there. In training, she is nearly 100% focused on the job (still distracted by some new noises or smells, but that's fine), so she very rarely tries to do something her way. During her "go play" time, I sometimes don't seem to exist anymore (I once walked 200 meters before she noticed I was away). Most of the time I can recall her or ask her to sit, and she will come or sit. It's the 1-2 times out of 10 that's the problem here, as I feel it's increasing and that she's learning how to get away with not listening.

To summarize the "issue": it only happens from time to time when we're out in the field and when she gets some free time.

[Rothievale]

I have a young lab exactly the same age just now that does exactly the same. I also don't know how to correct it other than ignore her but as you say, then she gets away with ignoring you in the first place, the evasion is like a catch me if you can game and I'm afraid, once they have learnt you'll never be able to catch them then what can you do? I haven't pushed her training wise as she's very immature for her age so we have only had the evasion a few times around the kennels for barking or nicking tripe but I know its there and am dreading formal training! I feel your pain!

[Callthatagundog]

I know I'm going to get some flack for this but here goes......

Without seeing your dog it is difficult to say but it sounds very similar to my young labs behaviour. I could tell when it was going to happen as she would give a quick sly glance at me as if saying 'I wonder what I can get away with here'. It didn't happen all the time and was very frustrating.

For a long time I ignored the dicking about on the basis that I was no match for a young, athletic dog and therefore if she 'won' it would make the game more rewarding. Reading through the forum one day I read a post from Wullie where he mentioned it taking him 2 hours (I think - can't remember the thread) to chase a lab down. I resolved to try it next time it happened.

When she next decided to play up, I didn't say a word - just broke into a trot and went after her. For the first three minutes she thought it was great and ran around me in circles. When I kept coming and didn't speak, her manner changed. She read my body language and realised this wasn't a game. By 5 minutes she had stopped a couple of feet from me, looking a bit down hearted. A quick brisk 'no', called into heel, back to where it all started and on with the training. It took a couple more jogs from me - considerably less each time but she has pretty much stopped it now.

Obviously this would not work if the dog has fear issues. Mine was being a youngster and just trying it on.

Sarah xx

[trekmoor]

My 9-10 months old Brittany bitch does this too. 20-30 years ago I would have chased her and caught her even if it took a couple of hours. Doing that always worked for me although I am well aware that doing this is scoffed at now. Even a 20 foot chase leaves me breathless now so I have had to try other things. I now do something else that will horrify many people. I ignore the running around until she comes to me, then praise her for coming to me then put a lead on her and make her do the recall on the lead using a rather angry tone of voice.

She still has episodes of running around but these are becoming fewer and less prolonged. I can "make" her recall now or "make" her retrieve a previously blinked article by changing my voice tone to "demanding with menaces !" This "method" makes not much sense and would not appear in a dog psychology book but she hasn't read that book yet.

Wullie

[kent]

Just get someone good to look at this in action. The one thing I will say IF YOU FEEL ITS ABOUT TO HAPPEN DONT GO THERE. ie engineer compliance not defiance Dogs pick up on things we do not know we give out

[Gundogguy]

My 9-10 months old Brittany bitch does this too. 20-30 years ago I would have chased her and caught her even if it took a couple of hours. Doing that always worked for me although I am well aware that doing this is scoffed at now. Even a 20 foot chase leaves me breathless now so I have had to try other things. I now do something else that will horrify many people. I ignore the running around until she comes to me, then praise her for coming to me then put a lead on her and make her do the recall on the lead using a rather angry tone of voice.

She still has episodes of running around but these are becoming fewer and less prolonged. I can "make" her recall now or "make" her retrieve a previously blinked article by changing my voice tone to "demanding with menaces !" This "method" makes not much sense and would not appear in a dog psychology book but she hasn't read that book yet. Wullie

[trekmoor]

Sarah, we both must have been typing at the same time but you got your post in first. I noticed you tried the "run 'em down" method. It did work ....always.....but once you start running you have to keep going until the dog "gives in." When it does that there is no need to physically or vocally correct the dog any further and I was pleased to read that you did not. If you were to "give in" and stop running before the dog did then the dog would see that as a victory and could become even worse..... it is a bit like F.F.training, once you start you have to keep going or else !

"Running 'em down" as a method of dog training has appeared in only one book that I know of, Keith Erlandson wrote it and I will be eternally grateful to him for that advice. I miss out on the "thunderin' good four letter hiding" stuff that Keith's mentor told him to do at the end of the chase....it is the successful chase that "trains" the dog , not the physical punishment.
Dogs vary considerably in how long they will need to be chased for ....in both time and distance. Two hours was the maximum time that I experienced ......oh how I wish I could still run like that !
Unless you are a fit and very non-lazy sort of person do not even try to use the "run-em-down" method. You have to choose the ground for this battle of wills in advance and then wait for the dogs behaviour to require the chase. Choose somewhere that you can run, not woodlands or marshy ground.

Wullie

[Gundogguy]

Sarah, we both must have been typing at the same time but you got your post in first. I noticed you tried the "run 'em down" method. It did work ....always.....but once you start running you have to keep going until the dog "gives in." When it does that there is no need to physically or vocally correct the dog any further and I was pleased to read that you did not. If you were to "give in" and stop running before the dog did then the dog would see that as a victory and could become even worse..... it is a bit like F.F.training, once you start you have to keep going or else !

"Running 'em down" as a method of dog training has appeared in only one book that I know of, Keith Erlandson wrote it and I will be eternally grateful to him for that advice. I miss out on the "thunderin' good four letter hiding" stuff that Keith's mentor told him to do at the end of the chase....it is the successful chase that "trains" the dog , not the physical punishment.
Dogs vary considerably in how long they will need to be chased for ....in both time and distance. Two hours was the maximum time that I experienced ......oh how I wish I could still run like that !
Unless you are a fit and very non-lazy sort of person do not even try to use the "run-em-down" method. You have to choose the ground for this battle of wills in advance and then wait for the dogs behaviour to require the chase. Choose somewhere that you can run, not woodlands or marshy ground.

Wullie

Had I.T. problems. This is method I learn on in my early days of spaniel training and was also the method most American field trialers use if the are training non-electric. If the dog does not respond quickly or on time to whistle or voice what are the alternatives. run' em done or least make think you can and will.

[Wendy M]

Or.....How about aiming to make obeying you more rewarding for her?... If she'd rather evade you than comply, then think about other ways to 'help' her want to comply... obviously your current system of praise is not motivating her enough, especially when its competing with the fun of running around.

That's my take on the situation, without seeing how you and the dog interact.

Wendy

[Judy]

I thought from the original post that this might be a stress relieving behaviour, now I'm not so sure. I used to walk a Setter which would suddenly take off and run, usually over open plan front gardens where she knew I wouldn't follow. I quickly got bored with this, besides, the neighbours were probably learning some new sweary words into the bargain, not good for the lady's image. I picked a nice day, turned my back on her and walked back into the field, sat down and completely ignored her. It took 20 minutes but she came slinking back, I put her lead on and walked her home, she never did it again with me although she carried on performing for her owners.

With my own more roughty tufty dogs I have chased them. Turning from a nice, quiet, sweetness and light kind of person (shurrup Wullie) into a screaming harridan travelling at three times her normal speed brings them to a crashing halt - a true "come to Jesus moment" as one of our overseas friends was fond of saying. Not had to do anything more other than ask then to come or to heel. Apart from one beggar who got the lead and force come treatment as Wullie described a few times until she realised I did mean what I said.

Another thing which has worked for me with the keen retrievers is to get a dummy out and bang it as I would to attract their attention before throwing it, this brings on a "whoopee, more retrieve fun" response from the dog and instant attention - the retrieve becomes the reward for good behaviour.

Several methods, only you know your dog and which might work with her, I'm sure its not an insurmountable problem as long as you don't let the behaviour continue too long.