Of course, you can always use traditional methods & they are supremely effective when done correctly.
Naj
Another "problem" with her is that she's far from stupid. If I let her do her thing and wait patiently until she comes, and she then gets praised for it, then it's a double reward for her: she was allowed to ignore me and have fun on her own, then she gets a reward for finally coming towards me. With her, I know that doing this simply won't work.Naj wrote:This is a learned behaviour - a throw-back to the game of keep-away that all puppies learn in the nest - that has been triggered, accidently in the first instance, by something Fran has done, presumably the walking-in to correct the dog when it ignores a command. The behaviour worked the first time, by escaping the impending correction, & was strengthened through repetition & so has been added to the repertoire of the pups' successful behaviours, in this instance an evasion mechanism, cued by Fran when she moves in to correct the dog. If this only happens occasionally, although under the same circumstances, then that may be because Fran looks particularly menacing or irate or whatever on those occasions that the dog exhibits the behaviour, or the area may be more open/less contained & offer the prospect of successful escape. Whatever, it appears to be the sniffing/ignoring that is causing the problem. If the dog performs OK in training then is it the end of the world if it has a bit of a sniff when it has been given permission 'to do it's own thing'?It sounds like Fran is using this to test the dog's compliance & it's become a bit of a sticking point. The dog, no doubt, is sensing the situation building & will be surreptitiously watching for the familiar cues. So first thing to do is not to provide them ie. as Kent says, don't give the command if you don't think that the dog will comply. Second, to re-educate the dog. As Wullie says, ignoring the dog altogether & /or walking away then giving it copious praise & reward when it comes to you is strongly reinforcing. You can also give the recall command when you know that it is already coming in to you. And in the early stages of retraining a couple of hundred yards isn't a great distance to have to walk - I'd just keep on walking & preferably hide if I could. If you are used to using edible rewards & want to break the dog from a scent when it is distracted then get as close as you dare & toss titbits at its head (a distracted dog will always react to thrown rewards better than taking them from the hand) until it switches focus to you & the titbits & then draw it away with rewards & recall command, then rehearse the recall in the same area while you still have its attention, or give it a retrieve or send it on for another 'play'/hunt. Eventually when it sniffs & you want to call it away & approach a little closer your behaviour will no longer be a cue to prepare for imminent escape manoeuvres but will be a cue for the opportunity of gaining something more rewarding, & so the dog's focus of attention will more easily switch from the illicit scent to you.
Of course, you can always use traditional methods & they are supremely effective when done correctly.
Naj
I may be wrong but this sounds like a different problem. Fran's dog is playing silly beggars as an escape mechanism to evade an impending correction. Your dog would appear to have learnt an excitable biting/nipping behaviour somewhere along the line, which you have rewarded in some way - by an excitable/angry response, maybe. I wouldn't be using diversions of dummy or food because this may well be rewarding the behaviour. This should have been stopped immediately it began by getting hold of the dog & containing it until it quietened each time it presented/repeated the behaviour ( as you say, he settles after a bit & can't maintain such excitement for ever). If you can't corner/walk/run it down within the confines of your garden then surreptitiously slip a short length of light line to its collar so when you take the lead off you have something to step on if it plays up. You could also try not sitting it &/or not releasing it in the garden but taking it straight into the house or kennel, &/or don't sit it but scatter some food when you release it, anything to break the routines that are currently triggering the behaviour. A squirt in the face might also work. And once you have a better idea of how to break the habit I would rehearse the walking in & out of the garden & release routine over & over until the behaviour stops. You will get repeats cropping up out of the blue but providing that you deal with them in the same way then they will stop completely over time. And don't get/act angry because that will probably make matters worse.Terry wrote:this running around mad is the one thing that really has not stopped Bertie goes really nuts ,we come back from a nice walk get to our garden take him off the lead sit him up and then off he goes cicleing jumping up and nipping. I have found that i have to have a real diversion i e a dummy or food but i give a loud blast and sometimes it works but all this stand still relax do nothing is not poss when they bolt at you jump and bite (with tail wagging)
i am lost on that side i have to say and it has brought me close to calling it a day.
I have listened on here and to my breeder/trainer and he says and i have seen it he does not do it with him. Its a real problem that i am finding hard to cope with and yet 2 mins after the chaos he is quiet as a lamb.