Wings and furr

[Rascal]

I find that a youngster of the OP’s pup’s age that will happily retrieve dummies will, as I said in a confined environment not think twice about retrieving either a cold partridge or a hen pheasant. And always give my youngsters a retrieve or two of cold game when they are pups but I don’t labour it.

I’ve never had one yet that didn’t run in and pick it without a seconds thought, I only do it a couple or so times.

And then carry on with dummies to establish the rest, I’ve never had a dog that has not then retrieved either cold or warm game later on in their training.

Rascal

[Dan outdoors]

Thanks, I will be giving it a go next week, hope it goes swimmingly

[whistleshappy]

I find that a youngster of the OP’s pup’s age that will happily retrieve dummies will, as I said in a confined environment not think twice about retrieving either a cold partridge or a hen pheasant. And always give my youngsters a retrieve or two of cold game when they are pups but I don’t labour it.

I’ve never had one yet that didn’t run in and pick it without a seconds thought, I only do it a couple or so times.

And then carry on with dummies to establish the rest, I’ve never had a dog that has not then retrieved either cold or warm game later on in their training.

Just out of interest. Once one of your young pups (months of age), has picked a cold bird or two, without any hesitation, how do you see the lesson beneficial going forward & what do you feel they gained as apose to leaving the lesson until they are confident & proficient in retrieving & have encountered game at a more mature age ? Why do you return to dummies only, from there on ?

Genuinely interested. I've only ever seen younger pups show uncertainty to picking their first bit of cold game & I'm not saying it did them any harm but I've seen some very interesting first attempts with young,few months old pups. Yet to see an older dog, 1 year plus, once sent for a first cold game retrieve, have any problem or show any reluctance to pick & return. I'm open minded & want to find out what we (me & pup), will gain from a very young introduction & then nothing but dummies after that.

[Rascal]

As I said a youngster once it will run in and retrieve anything you toss for it then I'll give it a couple of retrieves of cold game preferably a partridge or a hen and I don't stress about it but do it in a restricted area to limit the novelty value....I don't actually care either how it's returned to me at that stage and give em loads of praise. I do find the second time I chuck it they get a better hold though, for me its just about them having that in the memory bank so to speak....

I then train the basic handling and directions and steadiness on various dummies of all shapes and sizes largely because I haven't got a limitless supply of cold game. Once the youngster is at the stage in it's training of reintroducing cold game and moving onto warm game I find they don't think twice about it and pick it without any hesitation..

Some do as is evident from some posts on here and I think if they've retrieved feather at an early age it stops any of that hesitation, just my experience...

I do think some of the hesitation may be because of the way steadiness is handled around live game though and a youngster gets the wrong idea in that fur or feather is a no no and becomes confused or anxious about it...Or the handler behaves differently because it's cold game and then the youngster picks up on it and becomes anxious about it too...

Just my thoughts...

Rascal

[Judy]

Would that be a hen as opposed to a cockerel?

[Naj]

I also think that there are benefits to giving a young pup experience of retrieving game, for the very same reasons as Rascal gives, even if you then switched back to dummies for the majority of their retrieves. We surely use dummies for convenience & there would be no reason why you couldn't develop a dog's retrieving abilities, & training, by the use of cold/warm birds if you had them readily available. Many American trainers do this as a matter of routine & if you look at Crackerd's threads (where is MG??? ) you will see examples of the youngest of pups handling game species, both dead & alive.

Naj

[whistleshappy]

As I said a youngster once it will run in and retrieve anything you toss for it then I'll give it a couple of retrieves of cold game preferably a partridge or a hen and I don't stress about it but do it in a restricted area to limit the novelty value....I don't actually care either how it's returned to me at that stage and give em loads of praise. I do find the second time I chuck it they get a better hold though, for me its just about them having that in the memory bank so to speak....

I then train the basic handling and directions and steadiness on various dummies of all shapes and sizes largely because I haven't got a limitless supply of cold game. Once the youngster is at the stage in it's training of reintroducing cold game and moving onto warm game I find they don't think twice about it and pick it without any hesitation..

Some do as is evident from some posts on here and I think if they've retrieved feather at an early age it stops any of that hesitation, just my experience...

I do think some of the hesitation may be because of the way steadiness is handled around live game though and a youngster gets the wrong idea in that fur or feather is a no no and becomes confused or anxious about it...Or the handler behaves differently because it's cold game and then the youngster picks up on it and becomes anxious about it too...

Just my thoughts...

Rascal

So what is gained from it ? I understand the theory of getting a pup used to carrying cold game but for the life of me cant see the advantage of getting it comfortable trying to attempt it, when it's likely not got the strength, or height, in it's body, to make a retrieve, with even a partridge or hen pheasant, comfortably ? So is ingraining this early of any benefit.

Just using the analogy ( and your belief), that allowing this young, stops any hesitation at a later date- could you not also use the same analogy and say that introducing it young gives the green light and the opposite required result when trying to steady to game? Just to add, I dont personally believe either is true but I'm open to persuasion.

[Rascal]

I'm not trying to persuade you to do it at all, you asked my reasons for doing it and I gave them..... Most five month pups have the strength and height to pick a partridge. It works for me and I'll continue to do it, you continue to do what obviously works for you.....If it ain't broken as they say..........

Rascal

[whistleshappy]

I'm not trying to persuade you to do it at all, you asked my reasons for doing it and I gave them..... Most five month pups have the strength and height to pick a partridge. It works for me and I'll continue to do it, you continue to do what obviously works for you.....If it ain't broken as they say..........

Rascal

Exactly! I meant open to persuasion regarding being persuaded it was more beneficial. So far, my way works for me but was hoping to get a really in depth answer as to why it's beneficial at a few months. I can give an example or two as to why, at a later date, it is likely more beneficial but couldn't, & still cant, see why it should be so beneficial to introduce at early months old. One acception could be if the pup was to be worked with BOP's in the field but I have no experience of this so couldn't possibly say one way or another.

Thanks for your reasoning though. It has been beneficial to me.

[Rascal]

One acception could be if the pup was to be worked with BOP's in the field but I have no experience of this so couldn't possibly say one way or another.



My understanding of training with BOB's is more for the HPR and hunting flushing breeds because they fly and alight again very quickly, giving you a second bite at the cherry so to speak. Not in a retrieving situation unless it's pegging training you are doing...

Shame you can't breed the same ability in rabbits though innit?

Thanks for your reasoning though. It has been beneficial to me.

And yours to me.....

Rascal