How to check game properly for hard mouth?

[MontyJ]

Hi,
Can someone explain to me what is the correct procedure for checking shot game for danage from hard mouth?
Regards
Joe

[Cass]

As long as its not ripped apart or has broken ribs you're good

[Rascal]

Ripped does not indicate hard mouth it depends where the dog has had to extricate it from.

Lay the bird on it's back in the palm of your hand and feel along the breast bone. You can easily feel rib damage but you also need to be aware that a hard shot bird or one that has hit a tree or the ground hard could have rib damage that is not down to the dog either...

Rascal

[Rothievale]

I would say you can't explain through written word and it is best to be shown by someone who knows. I was always taught to hang game from its neck so that its guts do not fill out the rib cage and then feel. Torn skin is not an indicator of hard mouth, it can sometimes be as a result of a soft mouthed dog that does not take a good grip. A true hard mouthed dog will crush the rib cage and it won't be visible, you will only be able to feel it. Alarmingly, I have been in many a game larder where I have looked for birds with enact rib cages so that I can then use them for young dogs to retrieve at lunchtime and I've struggled to find a bird that hasn't had one or both sides caved in. Do some people even know they have a dog that is hard in the mouth? I have recalled several people comment on how their dogs kill runners before bringing them in which is fine because it means they dont have to despatch them themselves!

[Naj]

I'm sure a lot don't appreciate what would constitute hard mouth at trial level, Helen, or if they do, tend to look for excuses & mitigating circumstances when they do see it in one of their own dogs. Years ago I had a friend who was proud of his dog's soft mouth. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I could often hear the dog crunching stuff as she brought it in - she was particularly bad in the mouth department.

Breaks to ribs can often be felt as a pronounced sharp edge across several/all of them but the ribs can also feel flat on one or both sides with no 'spring' to them, and with no clear line of breakage. It also depends upon where the dog gets hold of the bird - if not across the ribs then you won't see such obvious signs of damage in that particular bird. However, if you check all the birds that your dog retrieves as a matter of routine then you will soon notice if rib damage is a regular occurrence. It's unfair not to give a dog the benefit of the doubt but equally misguided to go into denial when the problem is a recurring one. We are prone to take the suggestion of mouth problems in our dogs as a personal slur or embarrassment but it happens (& sometimes in the best of kennels) from time to time. A dog's mouth may also deteriorate with age &/or experience. I've known FTChs develop mouth problems after they've been made up & one in particular produced offspring that also developed in the same way when 3 or 4 years old. Fortunately the owner did the responsible thing & let 'his' line fizzle out. Some older dogs will damage runners but not dead birds, or pheasants but not ducks, but I can't understand any handler not being aware of the state of their dog's mouth at any given time, unless he/she never checks for it. There are often border-line incidents where you need to use a modicum of common-sense but if a dog is a real 'cruncher' then you will be in no doubt about it - any bird my old GSP gets hold of comes back mangled, & always has done.

Naj

[Rab1981]

Can............worms............ cannot be explained in written words needs to b experienced in real life situation. Scary subject........ so many people have not got a clue ...... dangerous!!!!

[Rascal]

Why, agree that it's better shown than trying to explain in type and folks have differing techniques but.....

Rascal

[keanerthanroy]

I was at a HPR trial earlier in the season and nearly every dog was damaging. It amazed me that the judges and the owners were all quite oblivious to it with one of the judges rubbing the bird all over checking for damage to the skin!

[Rab1981]

[*]The vague comment above saying as long as it's not ripped appart or has broken ribs says it all ....... hence my fist comment. ?...... scary!!!!

[Gundogguy]

Hard mouth is a lot like pornography, I cannot define it but I sure know it when i see it


The US definitions generally goes something like this, If the game is rendered unfit for the table then the offending dog has a hard mouth.
IMHO this definition is a to liberal for my own standards. The only marks or signs of damage I expect to see on a pheasant or partridge is the damaged done while being shot.
The time taken during basic training and introduction to game will go a long way in reducing or eliminating the instances of hard mouth.