Banning of ecollars

[Contender]

As a full time gundog trainer/Instructor, I'm thinking of introducing them into my classes........ FOR THE OWNERS!!! Everytime the dog does something wrong it could be handy for me to give the owner/handler a 'little reminder' so they work/train harder and make their dog succeed. Could also be handy for people not listing or interrupting classes, for skipping classes or any other unwanted behaviour

Natasha

[PrairieBoy]

Aaaah... someone else who should not own an e-collar.
Maybe we need dual e-collars.... one for the dog and one on the neck of the owner/user
then the zapper gets the same shock as the dog.

How come tasers have not been banned for misuse? And all users have been trained in their proper use.

This discussion will go on forever as "one size does not fit all"

I have used e-collars in the past and believe in them. Not all dogs are candidates and if the dog quivers, then the trainer is not qualified to use the e-collar. My most recent e-collar is still in the box because I do not want to admit that my dog is disobeying me as she is smarter than her owner....as all dogs are.

[newf]

Naj, I agree, and have to say a well thought out post. I'm not a anti-collar either but where I see the problem is an abused dog has no chance of escape. He cannot even elude the owner even for a "breather", he is boxed in. At least with traditional methods, the trainer has time to cool and reset...the dog with repetition and consistency from "social pressure" eventually decides to comply. And yes, though I have never used a collar, from arguments I have read, I can understand their value in correcting problem behaviors such as chasing. I think, where they get a bad rap, not only from misuse, but for everyday obedience training such as sitting and even whining and the fine tuning of distant and uninstinctive maneuvers such as 300 yd straight lines in retrieving.

I hope I'm not sounding contradictory, for I have to say again, I do believe they have their place, perhaps not in everyday obedience but as a tool for certain applications. Yes, I agree too that training cannot be entirely positive, some aversives have to come into play similar to what we experience in everyday life but does not cause us undure stress or hardship. With that being said, my concern, as with most on here is that banning of the collar will snowball into shunning all aversives, no matter how mild.

In conclusion, what is really annoying is that someone with a spoiled pet, who believes that obedience is unnecessary and interpret it as controlling, can shackle the skilful and well intentioned gundog owner because they do not have the same interests...frustrating. Perhaps we should lobby in the opposite direction...ban owners that nurture bored, obese and obnoxious pets with no purpose to get up in the morning...sounds cruel to me.

[PERCE]

As a full time gundog trainer/Instructor, I'm thinking of introducing them into my classes........ FOR THE OWNERS!!! Everytime the dog does something wrong it could be handy for me to give the owner/handler a 'little reminder' so they work/train harder and make their dog succeed. Could also be handy for people not listing or interrupting classes, for skipping classes or any other unwanted behaviour

Natasha

It's something that's been discussed on the moor quite often, a little aid for the flankers, particularly for those who are deaf as posts, just a little squirt of power every time they're required to wave their flag.

[Holmes]

Well all I can say is that I would NEVER use one of these collars except maybe on some humans

The reality is that humans in general want to take the easy route and many handlers think that by zapping the dog it will some how understand what they want .

If it means that your able to make a connection like that perfectly every time you choose to use it ( and you would only have to use it once if it is such a wonderful line of communication) then I am miss judging things and I hold my hand up and say I am missing out on a magic dog training wand ( Harry Potter eat your heart out ) and I am happy to contiune to miss out .

As for wanting to hurt my dog , well at times I must admit the thought has crossed my mind but that is normally when the remote control for the tv has been chewed yet again but it is only a passing thought and that is as far as I think anyone should go . Using pain to train is just plain sad ...

Gimmicks like this and prong collars have been around for years and their popularity rise and fall reflecting the coming and going of hard handlers that tell other people that these are wonderful magic wands that will provide the quick fix, very sad that people listen...





Thing is I am sure there will be trainers out there which will find something else to abause there dogs with no matter what . The human race at times leaves alot to be desired.

[nigelb]

A ban will not stop those who are going to abuse their dogs, rather like the smacking ban does not stop those who beat their children. The short sharp smack adminisitered at the time of the wrong, never did any child harm. Similarly, the correct use of aversive methods alongside positive methods for dogs will do no harm.

[Alice]

A ban will not stop those who are going to abuse their dogs, rather like the smacking ban does not stop those who beat their children. The short sharp smack adminisitered at the time of the wrong, never did any child harm. Similarly, the correct use of aversive methods alongside positive methods for dogs will do no harm.

Exactly.

I don't see what the point of discussing this again is, we've done it to death. Apologies OP, I know you didn't mean to start a 'how do you feel about e-collars' debate but that's what they inevitably turn into.

[Naj]

Well all I can say is that I would NEVER use one of these collars except maybe on some humans

The reality is that humans in general want to take the easy route and many handlers think that by zapping the dog it will some how understand what they want .

If it means that your able to make a connection like that perfectly every time you choose to use it ( and you would only have to use it once if it is such a wonderful line of communication) then I am miss judging things and I hold my hand up and say I am missing out on a magic dog training wand ( Harry Potter eat your heart out ) and I am happy to contiune to miss out .

As for wanting to hurt my dog , well at times I must admit the thought has crossed my mind but that is normally when the remote control for the tv has been chewed yet again but it is only a passing thought and that is as far as I think anyone should go . Using pain to train is just plain sad ...

Gimmicks like this and prong collars have been around for years and their popularity rise and fall reflecting the coming and going of hard handlers that tell other people that these are wonderful magic wands that will provide the quick fix, very sad that people listen...





Thing is I am sure there will be trainers out there which will find something else to abause there dogs with no matter what . The human race at times leaves alot to be desired.

I agree with you that the use of an e-collar is no substitute for proper training, but, to my mind, is a method of providing a correction that can be given at distance & while the dog is in the act of 'disobeying' or producing the unwanted behaviour, which is what timely correction is all about & which is, sometimes, difficult to achieve using traditional corrections/aversives.

I have never used pinch collars but, if used correctly, it is debateable whether they are more 'punishing' than how many use conventional choke chains or slip leads. As a matter of interest, do you use any corrections or punishments when training your own dogs? And if so, what are they?

Naj

[Nonehpets]

A ban will not stop those who are going to abuse their dogs, rather like the smacking ban does not stop those who beat their children. The short sharp smack adminisitered at the time of the wrong, never did any child harm. Similarly, the correct use of aversive methods alongside positive methods for dogs will do no harm.

Exactly.

I don't see what the point of discussing this again is, we've done it to death. Apologies OP, I know you didn't mean to start a 'how do you feel about e-collars' debate but that's what they inevitably turn into.

I disagree Alice- if the UK Parliament(s) are going to consider legislation then it is not the same discussion we have had previously. I don't wish to use an e-collar but it is the principles of over restrictive legislation that I object to and the public money that is wasted on it. I don't wish an MP in Hendon who happens to own Maximus the JRT to determine the dog related laws for the whole country - we have adequate animal cruelty legislation to allow anyone misusing an e-collar to be prosecuted.

Glasgow Council has announced a ban on any unleashed dogs in parks and that no leash should be more than 6 foot long - this is aimed at preventing dog's biting BUT how many pets will not get adequate exercise in future if that is imposed?

Cathy

[AJS]

Hi Cathy.

That is amazing that no lead can be over 6ft long.

Not only people like ourselves that use a longline to help with training but all those people with the retractable leads will be effected.

Is it just parks or public places.