How to check game properly for hard mouth?

[stiffsteve]

No question with this one



I shot it at about 25 yds. as it turned, and hit it across the back.



It was picked by a dog in the beating line, as far as I know.

I was looking forward to my first Woodcock dinner this season.


Steve.

[Springfield Pointers]

No question with this one

It was picked by a dog in the beating line, as far as I know.

I was looking forward to my first Woodcock dinner this season.


Steve.

That doesn't look like hardmouth.

That looks more like hunger.

[Rascal]

Certainly looks like the beaters dog may have beaten you to that supper Steve...

Rascal

[trekmoor]

No question with this one

It was picked by a dog in the beating line, as far as I know.

I was looking forward to my first Woodcock dinner this season.


Steve.

That doesn't look like hardmouth.

That looks more like hunger.

I agree but I'd still put a dog that did that out in a trial. One of my labs and one of my GSP's were soft mouthed but the gsp would eat birds breasts if she was really hungry and was left with the game in the back of a vehicle at the end of a long day. The lab would eat game if he could get at it at any time after he had retrieved it.
Wonder how long the beaters dog had that woodcock ? It can't have been all that hungry, it has only torn out one mouthful.

Wullie

[stiffsteve]

No question with this one

It was picked by a dog in the beating line, as far as I know.

I was looking forward to my first Woodcock dinner this season.


Steve.

That doesn't look like hardmouth.

That looks more like hunger.

I agree but I'd still put a dog that did that out in a trial. One of my labs and one of my GSP's were soft mouthed but the gsp would eat birds breasts if she was really hungry and was left with the game in the back of a vehicle at the end of a long day. The lab would eat game if he could get at it at any time after he had retrieved it.
Wonder how long the beaters dog had that woodcock ? It can't have been all that hungry, it has

only torn out one mouthful

.

Wullie

It would seem so from the picture, but there was no meat missing. It was just torn very badly.

Not really visible in the pic are three holes in the other breast, alongside the breast bone, equally spaced, about 6mm-7mm apart. I think that the bird was chewed. So, as you rightly say, not hardmouth.

Steve.

[Springfield Pointers]

I think that the bird was chewed. So, as you rightly say, not hardmouth.

Steve.

Hunger then?

[Naj]

Hang on a minute! If I had a dog that regularly returned birds in this condition, (& I have one in the kennel right now ), then I would class it as having a bad/hard mouth. I wouldn't dress it up with excuses that it was hungry. In this case, there doesn't appear to have been any meat actually eaten according to Stiffsteve so it was a clear case of the dog biting the bird, for whatever reason. If it had grabbed it across the back in the same manner, rather than the front, then it would quite likely have damaged the ribs. I'm all for giving a dog the benefit of the doubt & happily discount broken skin & deep bite marks on strong runners or difficult to extricate retrieves but would not expect to see such damage across the breast even so, more likely across the back end. And wouldn't have thought a woodcock was capable of putting up the fight that a wounded cock pheasant is capable of.

Naj

[trekmoor]

As I said earlier , whether you want to call this bird an example of hard mouth or not I would still eliminate a dog that did that sort of damage in a field trial .... and I wouldn't be at all happy about it in any shooting situation.

Wullie

[Naj]

I know, Wullie, & agree with your comments, but wanted to clarify things for the benefit of those less experienced. The consensus seemed to be moving to it being, perhaps, OK because there wasn't any rib damage.

Naj

[Greymaster]

I was at a HPR trial earlier in the season and nearly every dog was damaging. It amazed me that the judges and the owners were all quite oblivious to it with one of the judges rubbing the bird all over checking for damage to the skin!

I competed in an HPR FT season before last, early in that season, after the dismal wet summer. I heard a judge state afterwards that 11 of the first 12 birds retrieved were all damaged, (first 8 or 9 dogs running) and it stayed much the same in the second round. Many dogs were put out for hard mouth and some handlers were very surprised as it was their first experience of such eliminations.

It was clear to me that the birds, especially the hens, were very feeble, with little meat on them. They had put so much effort in the sodden wet summer to keeping warm and drying out, that they were too undeveloped for shooting and as trial fodder.

Birds were being damaged on impact with the ground and when it finally dawned on the judges, it was too late, too many dogs had been discarded.

One dog was given the benefit of the doubt after a double H-P-R in the first round and was offered a blind retrieve to confirm mouth, and the bird came back damaged, even though the judges witnessed the retrieve and the damage was not where the dog had held the bird.