Minijen wrote:I've found it quite insulting that some have said to go to a pro. I've trained hundreds of gundogs and they've even become police dogs in holland and all sorts. I'm quite capable, just looking for suggestions.
How the hell are we supposed to know what you have in the way of experience since you did not tell us at the very start ? The people who took the time and trouble to respond to your post did so not knowing what you may or may not have done with other dogs. They just gave suggestions as you requested they should.
Frankly I find it worrying that a person with your experience of training "hundreds of gundogs" should need to ask for suggestions about ways in which to stop a dog from chasing.
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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This is the problem with forums. Ask for a little help and get shit on. I'm just saying I'm quite capable of helping this bloke, but majority of dogs I've trained are from 8 weeks old more or less. Me personally hasn't had a problem of an older dog chasing.
No need for the cockyness.
One English Springers- Max
And one loopy Cocker- Mae.
Minijen wrote:This is the problem with forums. Ask for a little help and get shit on. I'm just saying I'm quite capable of helping this bloke, but majority of dogs I've trained are from 8 weeks old more or less. Me personally hasn't had a problem of an older dog chasing.
No need for the cockyness.
I am your opposite. Every dog I have ever owned has chased game to a greater or lesser degree. I have encouraged them to if it didn't just happen. Yet not one of my dogs has ever chased game or ran in for game during field trials. It is a different way of training dogs while retaining their hunt and retrieve drive.
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
Minijen wrote:This is the problem with forums. Ask for a little help and get shit on. I'm just saying I'm quite capable of helping this bloke, but majority of dogs I've trained are from 8 weeks old more or less. Me personally hasn't had a problem of an older dog chasing.
No need for the cockyness.
I am your opposite. Every dog I have ever owned has chased game to a greater or lesser degree. I have encouraged them to if it didn't just happen. Yet not one of my dogs has ever chased game or ran in for game during field trials. It is a different way of training dogs while retaining their hunt and retrieve drive.
Wullie
I see. None I've done have chased. And like I say, I haven't really trained older dogs.
Only puppies. So I can keep their enthusiasm but keep them steady. If that makes sense?
One English Springers- Max
And one loopy Cocker- Mae.
I think you need to re-educate the owner with regard to whistles and shoots, if his belief with regard to whistle use and pitches held any water then most shoots would be thrown into chaos as has previously been pointed out. And that is certainly not the case in my experience; the dog should be easier..........
For some inexplicable reason Hector threw the electric collar into the discussion as he was bored and to obtain a response rather than any helpful input to the discussion.
But, Trekmoor, (there's always one) you and I and most others use a whistle to modify the chase behaviour later and we also put in a reasonable standard of basic obedience before stopping the chase (or, in my case, attempting to stop it! ). Without training to the whistle I think you would need some serious vocal chords although I do know one or two people who don't use a whistle but do whistle themselves which is one possibility in which case start back at the beginning as you would a pup and bring it on using the owner's own whistle, at least it will be unique! or persuade the guy to buy a stag horn whistle, they are always unique.
Seriously though, Minijen, if you are out if your depth with this problem pass it on to someone else, make life easy for yourself.
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
This is all I was asking for. A bit of help.
I suggested he'd go somewhere else, but he wants my help.
So, the least I can do is help him. I'm all for whistles. And I can do that training. That's not out my depth.
Just looking at what you guys could come up with.
One English Springers- Max
And one loopy Cocker- Mae.
Minijen wrote:This is the problem with forums. Ask for a little help and get shit on. I'm just saying I'm quite capable of helping this bloke, but majority of dogs I've trained are from 8 weeks old more or less. Me personally hasn't had a problem of an older dog chasing.
No need for the cockyness.
most handlers start training at a young age. Chasing of game is usually going to start when you expose pups to game. I like to expose mine as early as possible, some prefer waiting, but that is another debate (a searchable one, by the way) ALL dogs will chase at some stage, and all dogs will need a whistle to control it. Primarily because they are not always watching you for their next instruction. The trick with getting a dog to drop on flushed game is to overlay the 'drop to whistle/voice' with the flush. You will need a ready supply of game to get there though, but it is entirely possible. But you need to start with commands to get there, be they voice whistle or e-collar conditioning. Training to stop to flush does not get finished at a specific age. If you're needing help with this issue, which is a very basic and not uncommon issue with bird dogs, I recommend you chat to some trainers that have dealt with these problems before you amplify the persons problems.
Yes it makes sense. I have done things your way too but only with other peoples dogs just in case I could not stop the chasing when doing the training in my preferred way. I am more used to allowing chases and then stopping the chase so perhaps I am more used to training pups of the age of the pup you have (or several months older) not to chase.
The following pics are of my Brittany at 8-9 months old. The pic was taken with a tele lens from maybe 50 or more yards away. She has seen and pointed rabbits up in front and when the rabbits began to move she sat with no command from me. She was very easy to train not to chase rabbits, she chased them by the dozens until she'd made up her own mind she could not catch them , after that she just sat when rabbits moved in front of her. Her no-chase behaviour with rabbits is now a bit rusty so in a month or so when dozens of young rabbits can be seen once more I will let her hunt them again and hope for the same response from her.
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
Just to throw a spanner in the works, it's perfectly possible, & laudable, to train a dog to be steady to game without the use of a stop whistle or stop command of any kind. Those of you who teach the stop command first & only then put it into a game situation are quite likely doing this (to a lesser extent) already without even realising it, because the minute most spaniels get onto game the stop training generally goes out the window & you have to work on stopping the dog from scratch, so why go the 'command' route in the first place when it invariably fails at the first hurdle. Another problem with teaching a dog to stop to command on game is that when you aren't able to see the dog you aren't in a position to stop it so it may well revert to chasing. In any event, it makes more sense from a training perspective for the flush to cue the stop rather than throwing an unnecessary/superfluous command into the mix.
). Without training to the whistle I think you would need some serious vocal chords although I do know one or two people who don't use a whistle but do whistle themselves which is one possibility in which case start back at the beginning as you would a pup and bring it on using the owner's own whistle, at least it will be unique! 
or persuade the guy to buy a stag horn whistle, they are always unique.
