3 gen ped of Buccleuch Intrepid

[Rothievale]

My friend had two (mother and daughter) with it, I saw it first hand, not nice, they were put down. Mother was bred from before it showed itself.

[t jack]

My friend had two (mother and daughter) with it, I saw it first hand, not nice, they were put down. Mother was bred from before it showed itself.

What age did it become apparent?

[Strathcraig]

Think there's likely to be a lump of folk testing now if they've got a Buccleuch pup or have used Pepper. Also means the Pepper x Onyx litter are hereditary clear.

As regards Kurt. I'll be surprised if Opie tests, there was someone on here not overly long ago who asked him over the phone if his cockers were tested and he told them there were NO tests for cockers!

[Sgurr]

The AHT have recently released statistics for the DNA test they have performed - here is the link http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-display/genet ... stics.html

In the case of ESS, testing began seven years ago, mid 2007 and in that time there have been 980 tested Clear, 425 tested Carrier and 51 tested Affected. Bear in mind that this is ESS as a whole, show and working lines, and not just UK dogs (Swedish and Norwegian dogs reported to appropriate kennel club). For working lines in the UK the figures are approximately 400 tested Clear, 40 tested Carrier and 2 Affected.

There are believed to be two types of PRA affecting ESS, PRA Cord 1 for which there is a DNA test and another, rarer form for which as yet there is no DNA test. Age of clinical presentation varies, sometimes early onset ( I have a friend whose dog was diagnosed aged three) and sometimes much later - depends on the individual dog.
There have been pre-potent sires in the working lines that have very, very likely been Carriers, but as the DNA test for PRA Cord 1 was not available, breeders in those times did the best they could with the information they had. Now, any dog or bitch that is bred from should be tested for PRA Cord 1, (the sampling is easy and the test is cheap) and especially any dog offered at stud which is likely to be heavily used and thus be a strong influence on future generations of the breed. Health testing is just another consideration in the overall question - Is this dog good enough to breed from? If a dog is tested Carrier it should only be bred to a Clear mate, and then progeny (with 50/50 chance of being Carrier also) should also be tested if they are breeding prospects.

Hollydrive Kurt now has 6 progeny DNA tested for PRA Cord 1 that appear on the KC database. Two are Clear and four are Carrier. Of the four Carriers, two are from Onyx, now announced as Clear by Buccleuch - the other two Carriers are by a different bitch. Even when mated to a Clear, statistically 50% of a Carrier's progeny will be Carriers - mating to an untested ESS bring in the problem of Affected dogs. Is Kurt an untested Carrier - draw your own conclusions. But bear in mind that the naturally occurring mutation rate is very, very, very low and the likelihood of two mutations occurring in the same litter(out of Onyx) will be infinitesimally small.

[rhosyn]

The two recently tested carriers were ones I had tested myself, as was their litter sister who however was clear.

[EssGrouse]

Not sure if this is relevant but Dunnbrigg Ronson out of Bucclech Ivy X Helmsway Henry has tested clear for PRA & Fuco.

[Sgurr]

Clear results simply give the information that neither sire nor dam is Affected. So yes it is good to know that neither Helmsway Henry nor Buccleuch Ivy of Whitehope are Affected but better by far than doing these jigsaw puzzles, a stud likely to have a significant input on the future of the breed should be tested - it is only £50 for the test. Eventually the untested Carriers will be identified as individual test results on progeny accumulate. Better by far to say this is a great dog but one of his minor issues is Carrier for PRA Cord 1 so DNA tested Clear bitches only put to him.

[coneking]

I have a dog out of Pepper x Onyx....if im reading this right my dog is now diffidently clear...is that right..?

[WGD]

I have a dog out of Pepper x Onyx....if im reading this right my dog is now diffidently clear...is that right..?

Yes, unless a genetic mutation occurs which is highly unlikely. As Sgurr has said the test is only £50 and easy to do (swabs done yourself and sent off in the post) so the best way to be sure is test.

[Sgurr]

Coneking,

Once the Pepper and Onyx results are posted on MyKC you should see that your pup gets Hereditary Clear status on the database. This is assuming that Buccleuch have used one of the testing labs that either report results directly to the KC or it is a lab where the KC will accept the results if the owner sends them on. There is a legal dispute on going between a couple of laboratories so the KC is keeping out of it and only accepting certain results for publication.

The rate of mutation is finite but very, very, low (overall canine mutation rates are in the region of 10 to minus 5 to 10 to minus 3 or put it another way, 1 in 100 000 to 1 in 1000). If you test for personal reassurance (and transparency of result) it is best to use Animal Health Trust as they report directly to the KC and the approx. £50 is their price.

Even if only one parent is Clear for PRA Cord 1, you can be sure that a pup will never have the condition, but both are Clear in your pup's case.