Scotland/UK referendum

[trekmoor]

Devolution ? Nationalism ? Patriotism ? Independence ? Big words them are.

How would the Scots feel if having gained independence in the referendum they were then presented with what they think of as part of Scotland trying to break away from them ?

Suppose the Shetlanders decided all those lovely new oil fields were there's alone to exploit ? Would Alex Salmond grant them the independence they wanted or would he say the oil was Scotlands and no way was Shetland going to get independence ?
I'm told the Shetlanders don't really think of themselves as Scots anyway so the above is not a huge stretch of the imagination.

And before you English buggers get too smug remember that neither the Geordies or the Cornish think of themselves as proper English !

I postal voted last night and I voted for Britain.

Wullie

[Springfield Pointers]

What brought about the need for the split? What was the driver?

[trekmoor]

The English !

Wullie

[canismajor]

I personally think you should get independence, i think you deserve it.

[Cambusvale]

The SNP got an such a majority in last Scottish election that they could keep their manifesto pledge. It is what they were setup for and have maintained their stance over the years since becoming a political entity.

To go further I would also add misrule from Westminster assisted as well in the last 18 years helped along with the Westminster gravy chain, un-elected House of Lords who are not voted for/rising cost, the London and North divide (I include England in this as they have been short changed as much as the Scots). But the biggest issue is the Westminster system is no longer fit for purpose, the political parties see to that and they no longer work for the electors they are all linked to wealth or the individual elite. I can see no opportunity to change this system as I see it from within. But I can grasp an opportunity to change Scotland towards its socialist leanings and not play at centre to centre right as Blair tried. The Scots as a nation have different values from London and in a nutshell if you have London/Westminster you have a system that cannot change.


To answer Bill point, the Shetlanders have a clear sense of self and good on them but, the consensus apparently is better to be governed by Edinburgh than Westminster. It is for no reason that Libs/Tories/Labour have agreed to more self determination of the Islands. The SNP has it in place already, self determination for the Islanders North or West and as Eck stated the best people to decide what is best for the Islands is the people that live their. Shetland have already in place a landfall tax paid by oil companies. This fund not unlike the Norwegian fund goes to pay for infrastructure on the island decided by the Council. Now what happened to the oil revenue and forward thinking by our govt since oil was found in 1970's. Paying debt and giving tax rebates and not to mention funding Thatcher taking on the big unions and destroying heavy industry in Scotland. Was it a wise move for political gain and detriment of the UK population, you decide, but for now and for the foreseeable future I can see a fund from oil at the betterment of a independent Scotland and used for its nations benefit not a political party. I am prepared to give it 10 years or the rest of my life to make Scotland a better nation for my children and future generations. It is what spurred on USA, Australia, Canada or NZ. The only thing to fear is fear itself.

Alba gu bràth

[David]

personally I was born British and have always been proud to be British, I guess I will have to get used to the idea of being simply English for the remainder of my life. Just seems a such stupid waste of money.

We will all remain British, even the independent Scots will be British. We all come from the British Isle's.... Britain will remain as that refers to England and Wales

Unfortunately in our political system minorities nearly always win as once there is more than two options to vote for, the split often means more people vote for other parties in total than vote for the party that ends up winning. We all had a chance to change this system a few years back but with a yes no vote on first past the post. The chance to change this in my opinion it was lost.

My vote has been wasted since 1988 when I moved in to where I live now. One party has always won.

I'd be quite happy to let the Scots go it alone if that's what they vote for. As has been said, living in England we are now the only member of the UK who don't have our own devolved decision making.

The other thing about our voting system that make's me laugh is 'turn out'. If the vote is a trade union vote and the turn out is low, but strike action is carried the political parties are in up roar. A recent vote for a Police Commissioner in the Midlands had a turn out of less then 20% and the vote was carried, nothing said

[Rascal]

What brought about the need for the split? What was the driver?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_i ... ndum,_2014

That should keep yer quiet for a bit.............

Rascal

[Springfield Pointers]

What brought about the need for the split? What was the driver?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_i ... ndum,_2014

That should keep yer quiet for a bit.............

Rascal

Thanks for that Rascal. I got sidetracked by Bannockburn... then Stirling Castle... then Flodden... I now have no peace.

[Naj]

My opinion is shared by many others, as is yours, Ally. But the SNP are in a majority position because they won more seats than any other party. As regards the vote, I think you'll find that more people voted for other parties than they did for the SNP, so a majority of those who voted actually wanted another party in power. Democracy in action, as you say, but it has its anomalies.

Naj

Naj, I have read many of your posts and you have passed on many words of wisdom to many people. I can't believe that someone as obviously intelligent as yourself would think it prudent to have shared power, instead of one democratically elected government?! Please don't take this as a personal slur from a newbie, but I can't see how your post makes sense.

No offence taken, Stu, we're all entitled to our opinions & yours is no less, nor more, valid than mine or anybody else's on this matter. People will vote on this for a variety of reasons, & 'intelligence' is not the exclusive preserve of the YES camp. There are, I would hope, intelligent people on both sides of the argument, unless you are implying that I'm stupid. No comments required from the rabble, please.

Not sure why you thought my post didn't make sense, for it was a statement of fact. And we don't have shared power, we currently have devolved power, now an established trend throughout the union, and in the event of a NO vote there is already legislation passed to increase those powers. The Executive is effectively a democratically elected government & already has sufficient devolved powers to do much of what it claims it wishes to do. The Scottish Government is already responsible for health, education, justice, rural affairs, housing & transport & house tax raising powers, all of which will increase after a NO vote.

Naj

[Naj]

The Northern (Shetland & Orkney) & Western Isles have been opportunistic here in setting up an island group fighting for more autonomy in the event of a Yes or No vote. It is not true that the Northern Isles prefer Edinburgh to Westminster, quite the reverse. They have a bitter distrust of the SNP, and deservedly so, who have side-tracked them repeatedly in favour of their supporters in the Western Isles - the Northern Isles ARE the Lib Dems. All three island groups want, among other things, control of the seabed around their islands & the substantial Crown Estate revenues that go with them & which Salmond would be looking to for funding his venture in the event of a Yes vote. Holyrood & Westminster have entered into negotiations. Westminster has, most think, been very honest & committed itself to progressing autonomy whatever the vote. Salmond has promised the earth, but only on the proviso that he gets a Yes vote. Since he could have already provided much of what he is now promising, the (Northern) islanders are extremely cynical & see this as outright blackmail. They are not impressed, & have a reputation for having long memories in matters such as this!

Both Northern Isles groups set aside oil funds back in the 70s as a back-up for when the oil eventually runs out & to clear up after the oil boom. When this happens events move rapidly & you can get left behind if you're not quick to react as Orkney is currently finding out to its cost with a bloated harbour/towage company currently haemorrhaging millions of pounds a year. Shetland is still at the heart of things & swilling with money. The oil funds are a mixed blessing, because Holyrood uses them as an excuse to cut funding, so you're no better off.

Naj