Is it over

[Dan outdoors]

Just curious if any of you have had a whiner and what you did about it, I got my dog (Sprocker) predominantly for pigeon shooting and she's spoiling it with her hollering, I've read a lot of stuff about it and don't think I'll be able to stop it but unsure what to do with her, she's a good beating dog though I'm not that interested in beating, what did you people on here do when you had one?

Thanks

[allan450]

it will get worse.is she doing it in the kennels as well.i bet its hitting a nerve when she is doing it.

[Dan outdoors]

She hardly does it apart from when excited for shooting, and yes I'd say she hits a bulls eye with the nerve hitting, I brought her for my shooting and I'm gutted that I don't think I can take her anymore, not sure if I shod find a good home for her and start again with a lab or something, I don't want to but if I keep her for beating and get a lab to train for shooting and it catches the whining off her, just curious what people do that have had one, keep or rehome? I absolutely love gun dog training, gutted it's not working out so far..

[LucyLab]

A whine is not contagious, it's either in the dog or it isn't. I've posted on here a few times about my Lab, who was noisy from the moment he got home. With careful training, and help from an expert, I've managed to reduce it down to a (still INCREDIBLY annoying to me!) whistle, most of the time. But he can still be provoked into a full whine, when he is frustrated - if a bird is lightly hit and lands nearby, but another dog runs in! It's a pressure thing for him and I've come to realise that it's just 'him'. He is quite simply, a very whiney dog. He is also one who will full-on scream if he so much as stubs his toe. I'm probably unintentionally making him sound worse than he is(!), but just trying to explain that some
dogs are just noisy.
I also have a Cocker, about a year younger and silent. They have trained together, worked together, housed togther and he has never 'caught' the whine. He is a completely different personality, far calmer and nowhere near as neurotic!
The fact that the Lab is noisy would never stop me from keeping him (he's amazing otherwise!) and certainly wouldn't stop me from getting more dogs and continuing to train them together. If you're happy to have a beating dog, then keep the one you have AND start again with a new pup and a whole new fun set of problems to solve!

[Dan outdoors]

Lucy, thanks for your reply, good to hear that you manage to cope ok, I think if the beating season wasn't so far away that I might be happier that I had something to concentrate on, I'll give it lots of thought and consider getting another dog in the future perhaps as for now I'll be fetching them myself.

[trekmoor]

I have never been able to put a stop to whining once it is well started. A whining dog in a pigeon, duck or goose hide would drive me up the wall. If doing that was a large part of my sport I'd find the dog another home and get another dog.

I do think whining can be "contagious." A dog may need to have a whine "in it" before it will whine but that dog might be silent all of it's life unless a whining dog starts it off. I think most dogs already have a whine "in them" and all it needs is the right trigger to be pulled to make it start to whine. That trigger can be getting cast off to hunt or retrieve, or it could be being made to sit instead of going hunting or retrieving ....or it could be the whines emanating from another dog.

I can make any of my 3 cockers whine just by doing certain things in certain ways in certain situations. I "manage" the way I do things so as not to have them whine. Two of them would whine if I cast them off hunting in an over excitable manner ....so I don't do that. The other cocker is more likely to whine if made to remain sitting during drives while picking up. I tend to take him to drives where he cannot see lots of birds falling and that "manages" the whine.

Wullie

[Stihl 090]

Echo wullies comments. Especially the middle paragraph. It needs that trigger.
Whines can be contagious ive heard from a top trialler and to avoid any contact. If the dog has done alot of beating etc and on the go to suddenly expect it to sit still in a hide is totally different.
You need to train for that entirely seperately and why u never take a young dog pigeon shootin!!

[Dan outdoors]

Thanks both, this is my first gun dog, I have a option of rehoming and starting again, I enjoy the training allot and she's a dream to train out with the dummy's, but if I can't use her for what I want I loose the training and the shooting with her for a small prize of beating, what if I have another problem with the next? Is it normal to go through a few cast offs? Thanks

[trekmoor]

Move heaven and earth to find non-whining sires and dams before buying another dog is the best advice I can offer. Spaniels aren't really bred to sit patiently in hides , neither are HPR's. I know spaniels and HPR's can sit quietly in hides but a well bred lab might suit you better. Labs can work fine as beating dogs too.

Wullie

[Dan outdoors]

Thanks wullie, that might be what I will do at this rate.
My girlfriend googled this up, is it worth trying?



The Quiet Drill

This was shared with me from a Mike Lardy seminar and I adapted it while trying to "cure" a habitual whiner. This is a shaping drill that gives you a tool to gradually modify behavior over time. I stopped all other field work for months while working on this.


Start with a single thrower in the field. Sit dog at your side. Have thrower shoot and throw a bird and dog will likely whine. If he does say QUIET and have thrower pick up the bird. Repeat several times and pick up bird each time. After several throws where he whines and gets denied next have thrower not shoot and just toss a bumper. Likely dog will not whine and I'll give a soft GOOD DOG and send for bumper. Next go back to gunshot and bird and denials for whining and then do the unattractive bumper and let him get it.

Hopefully after a session or two of this he'll be quiet for the shot and dead bird. Next its time to amp it up a bit. Add props like a shotgun and get some denials and after a few go back to the bumper or bird without shotgun so he can be successful and get a retyrieve. Add duck calls. Add another dog. Add shot flyers.......each time after 3 or 4 failures where he's denied the retrieve drop back a notch or two in excitement so he can be successful and get rewarded with a retrieve.

Next do the above in a new location. And another that is more field like and possibly with a group of people.

The last place to go will be hunting or to a test or trial. For the rest of this dogs career you have to be prepared to deny the retrieve for noise no matter where you are. It doesn't matter if its a hunt of a lifetime or a trial you drove 10 hours to run, you can't reward his noise with a bird once the new standard is established. To do so will essentially un do all the work you have done for months.

Raider was a talented young dog that just couldn't control himself. I picked him up in 2 finished tests and a master test and decided that one way or another we would fix this problem. This decision was made in April and after 6 months of this process he ran his first and only FT. He didn't make a peep. When he picked up the last bird of the trial in the 4th series and got a JAM I then realized that these were the first birds he had ever retrieved in competition because I had picked him up in every other event without him getting a bird. Shortly after that he died in a freak accident while he was still 2 years old but he taught me a lot about dealing with involuntary habits in high dogs. Since then I've used this process to deal with noise, creeping , and even spinning.

Like I said there's no quick fix but it can be controlled.

Bill