Be interested to hear your thoughts....
I read on here about folk sitting a dog up and tossing dummies close to it and then the handler picks either all the dummies or all but one or two.. Why, its not something I do and wondered why others do?
Rascal
Steadiness?
Steadiness?
General Dogsbody
Re: Steadiness?
It just teaches the dog not to assume that every dummy it sees is a retrieve for it.
Kind of an attempt to teach them not to run in.
Kind of an attempt to teach them not to run in.
Re: Steadiness?
Just to add, we have always done it with ours and he is rock solid.
However 100% success on a sample of 1 is not really proof!
We don't always do it though.
Say occasionally of you're doing some left/right casting, simple practice with a dummy each side, once he's bought one back, sit and wait him them just walk up and get the second.
Similar to throwing out a distraction dummy when they are returning with a retrieve.
However 100% success on a sample of 1 is not really proof!
We don't always do it though.
Say occasionally of you're doing some left/right casting, simple practice with a dummy each side, once he's bought one back, sit and wait him them just walk up and get the second.
Similar to throwing out a distraction dummy when they are returning with a retrieve.
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Stacia
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- Dogs: Drift and Rourke
- Location: West Worcestershire
Re: Steadiness?
It didn't do anything for my Lab's steadiness! You could sit him and throw dummies all around, at a class once, one even landed on his tail and he didn't move a muscle, but take him into line and he was off! I can see the thinking behind it, but dogs don't necessarily think as we do!
Re: Steadiness?
its been the accepted norm in retriever training for as long as I've been training them. The trick is to throw the dummy as far as you can and pick it up, most dogs will attempt a run in on that one cos very few owners are prepared to walk that far to pick them, dogs work this out very quickly - leave the short ones, get the long ones cos thats wot I do. 
Then get somebody else to throw and pick them further from the dog. Its just a way of telling the dog not everything seen flying is theirs. I don't bother as much with the Spaniels, they aren't as obsessed with retrieving as the Flatcoats were.
Then get somebody else to throw and pick them further from the dog. Its just a way of telling the dog not everything seen flying is theirs. I don't bother as much with the Spaniels, they aren't as obsessed with retrieving as the Flatcoats were.In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
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Mike A
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- Dogs: Ned , Wilf and Milo
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Re: Steadiness?
As above, I did it a lot back when I had Labs !
I have started doing it again but in a different way with Wilf . If he blinks in favour of hunting or drops on return to hunt he thinks he can go back for it when he's ready ,so I sit him up and collect it myself , this amongst other things is working
Mike
I have started doing it again but in a different way with Wilf . If he blinks in favour of hunting or drops on return to hunt he thinks he can go back for it when he's ready ,so I sit him up and collect it myself , this amongst other things is working
Mike
Re: Steadiness?
Both of my boys have understood this game very quickly - and don't bother to run-in as they know full well they're not getting the dummy/ball. They seem to cotton on very quickly that it's all fake. I'll probably still do it with pups in future - but I don't think it's a useful exercise in the long term.
Instead I've tended to move on quite quickly to more "real" scenarios where I toss out a few dummies while walking along, or drop a dummy and walk on, sit the dogs up, then go back and get it myself sometimes but sending the dogs in exactly the same circumstances other times.
This does seem to have worked with my 3 year old who is reliably steady - my younger lunatic is a work in progress and I realised today I need to do far more work on chucking a dummy, walking him away from it, getting him lined up, then cancelling it so he cools off while I go and get it myself. He has a lot of trouble controlling himself. I did loads of work on this last year and he made huge progress - but recently he's really slipped back a lot. More things to work on.
Instead I've tended to move on quite quickly to more "real" scenarios where I toss out a few dummies while walking along, or drop a dummy and walk on, sit the dogs up, then go back and get it myself sometimes but sending the dogs in exactly the same circumstances other times.
This does seem to have worked with my 3 year old who is reliably steady - my younger lunatic is a work in progress and I realised today I need to do far more work on chucking a dummy, walking him away from it, getting him lined up, then cancelling it so he cools off while I go and get it myself. He has a lot of trouble controlling himself. I did loads of work on this last year and he made huge progress - but recently he's really slipped back a lot. More things to work on.
Re: Steadiness?
I believe it is good practice for a dog that is on the edge of running in or is over excited. As to it's benefits for actual shooting conditions ?... I find this puzzling cos it is only a step towards that end. We do things in the minor leagues of training to instill all sorts of communication, e.g. heeling in the presence of small distractions before we take a dog actually hunting; similarly, we instill patience and manners at meal time before the bowl is set down.
So, denial during dummy training is just the first step in generalizing a concept and practice that needs to be carried all the way through to actual hunting scenarios.
As an afterthought, was it Erlandson that detailed in spaniel training to condition a dog to the phrase 'bird gone away' to settle the animal and communicate that nothing is required of him even if a shot has been fired. This may be physically different but the subtleties of it are the same in my opinion. However, I have been wrong before.
So, denial during dummy training is just the first step in generalizing a concept and practice that needs to be carried all the way through to actual hunting scenarios.
As an afterthought, was it Erlandson that detailed in spaniel training to condition a dog to the phrase 'bird gone away' to settle the animal and communicate that nothing is required of him even if a shot has been fired. This may be physically different but the subtleties of it are the same in my opinion. However, I have been wrong before.
Re: Steadiness?
It's a practice that seems to have been carried forward from way back but it fails to address the real problem, which is that of self-control. Of course a dog is going to be steady if it knows that it will rarely retrieve, but in the real world retrieves can & do come quickly & in rapid succession. The actual problem is anticipation of the fetch command & you only get around this one by exposing the dog to retrieves & working on the anticipation as & when it arises, which it inevitably will. You don't steady a dog to rabbits by keeping it away from them. I send my dogs for every retrieve & the retrieve becomes contingent upon - & a reward for - the dog being steady, and that is far more effective than when I used to follow the practice of only sending the dog for one in four retrieves etc. Anticipation is inevitable so prepare for it & you, & your dog, won't be left without a contingency for it when it crops up. 
Naj
Naj
Re: Steadiness?
Naj wrote: I send my dogs for every retrieve & the retrieve becomes contingent upon - & a reward for - the dog being steady, and that is far more effective than when I used to follow the practice of only sending the dog for one in four retrieves etc. Anticipation is inevitable so prepare for it & you, & your dog, won't be left without a contingency for it when it crops up.
Naj
I agree Naj. Wondering...how do you handle the 'run in' if it happens ?
