Steadiness?

[Judy]

Shouldn't do but often does. I've seen so many dogs doing everything perfectly but as excitingly as paint drying.

[Cass]

I do the same drill but with birds and not dummies. My dog is steady to flush without the whistle. I don't think you can discount this drill. Yes they catch on quick but it's training. The goal is for them to figure it out

[Naj]

Which drill is that, Cass?

[newf]

What I get from this discussion is that to be fair to a new student or a problem dog is to keep it absolutely simple until the behavior of steadiness is pretty well generalized and that would seem to fit denials. Progressing from that would be the dynamic play and direction giving routines that Rascal and Naj are advocating. It would seem the latter would be the logical goal in finishing and maintaining that critical connection of working as a team. And as they have recommended, it would provide fun, challenge and a cooperative attitude that is the ideal of what we all strive for...

[Springfield Pointers]

I do the same drill but with birds and not dummies. My dog is steady to flush without the whistle. I don't think you can discount this drill. Yes they catch on quick but it's training. The goal is for them to figure it out

A dog that requires a whistle to drop to flush isn't steady to flush. Just saying... "steady to flush with the whistle" is a misnomer. I train for the flush or shot to be the stop command.

[Naj]

What I get from this discussion is that to be fair to a new student or a problem dog is to keep it absolutely simple until the behavior of steadiness is pretty well generalized and that would seem to fit denials. Progressing from that would be the dynamic play and direction giving routines that Rascal and Naj are advocating. It would seem the latter would be the logical goal in finishing and maintaining that critical connection of working as a team. And as they have recommended, it would provide fun, challenge and a cooperative attitude that is the ideal of what we all strive for...

What I get out of this discussion is that you can successfully train steadiness regardless of whether you use one drill or the other, so which of these drills you use is academic. There are other factors at work.

Naj

[Judy]

So, how do you teach the stop to flush without teaching the dog to stop to flush? With a whistle? I teach a stop to flying dummies with the stop whistle, after I have taught the dog not to b' off from a stationary position, sometimes picking the dummy, sometimes not...

[newf]

Judy, you're a relunctant convert...I've left the dark side and now see the light... come on in, the water is fine.

[newf]

What I get from this discussion is that to be fair to a new student or a problem dog is to keep it absolutely simple until the behavior of steadiness is pretty well generalized and that would seem to fit denials. Progressing from that would be the dynamic play and direction giving routines that Rascal and Naj are advocating. It would seem the latter would be the logical goal in finishing and maintaining that critical connection of working as a team. And as they have recommended, it would provide fun, challenge and a cooperative attitude that is the ideal of what we all strive for...

What I get out of this discussion is that you can successfully train steadiness regardless of whether you use one drill or the other, so which of these drills you use is academic. There are other factors at work.

Naj

True ! You have to know what you are doing... either way. For me falling down is all part of learning...haven't broken any bones yet, just minor scrapes and bruises.

[Judy]

I don't do convert, I do evolve, if it works don't change it.

If I could emulate loads of birds falling from the skies and had several people with dogs retrieving them in front of mine then that would be good training but as it is I go get some myself just so's the dogs don't get any ideas about retrieving everything that falls from the sky. Then they, hopefully, won't run in too often and end up getting duffed up by some unruly picking up dog from further down the line... In other words, sit means sit regardless of whats flying about. The reward is for the sit not for the retrieve. Anyway carry on chaps, do what you wanna do.