Studs Ess

[Spaniel Jim]

True James. Only thing is that with a young dog you have to take the risk but then if no one uses it how can people tell it produces top stuff. Most dogs are hitting 4-5 before stuff they have produced hits the circuit. I have done abit of both this year I used a dog that's almost 11 on 1 litter and 1 that's 3 on another.

[EssGrouse]

Wrong way of looking at it totally, it doesn't matter what the dog looks like or even how it goes. All that matters is what it produces, you want a proven sire so that makes life easier, you're not getting the dog after all just just what it produces.

I totally agree, style and pace and all that other flashy stuff I'm not bothered about. To much emphasis is put on style and pace etc when really people should be focusing on the natural attributes.

Game Finding ability
Marking
Wind use
Soft mouth's
Power

Which I'm asking for, just not from certain lines and for the stud to also add size and attitude to his progeny.

[EssGrouse]

Also I would recommend Albamabach. Having seen what he threw when put to an Edwardiana bitch. This year also I seen a Kurt bitch that was 12 months old from a Edwardiana FTW that's 1 of the best young dogs I have ever seen.

He is to soft Jim and would double up on the Broc line which is a no no for me. Albeit they will probably be stylish as hell but when you start to turn the screws it shuts down or takes a while to recover.

Its not what i intend to breed.

[Ada C]

I'm going to have to ask another question

Please bear in mind I'm new to all this.....

The sort of dog you seem to be looking for is the sort of dog a lot of non-trailly people, like me, also like. Bearing in mind that (according to what I'm reading in the gundog media and on here) a lot of triallers put more emphasis on different attributes and if only dogs with FT qualifications get selected for use as stud dogs (and as has been said - if you wait to see how many offspring they produce get placed too...) then why don't you look totally outside the box and see what's out there in the non-trailling world?

I don't like to see gene pools imploding because everyone wants to use a particular stud and bearing in mind not every pup goes to a trailling home nad not every home can cope with the attributes you are looking for, finding a dog that ticks all your boxes would surely be helping the breed move towards a dead-end genepoolwise ( I'm sure there is a more scientific -sounding way of writing that)

I think a lot of dogs that are termed 'Alpha' dogs are actually lacking in confidence around other dogs and have adopted a 'get in there first' attitude. The thought of a dog being intimidated by another dog working close to it fills me with horror! Are there really working dogs like that out there? I have noticed a lot of really nervy and cowed-looking springers and cockers, which is why I'm not fussed about red ink on pedigrees.

One more thing: will all the pups be going to field trials people? As a beater, there is nothing worse than having a dog in the back of the wagon that is too prickly to share his space because we get some serious shaking about in the back and if a dog takes offence to being sat on by another dog (or person) it has no place in there.

I hope you don't mind me asking. I'm just a compulsive learner!

[EssGrouse]

I'm going to have to ask another question

Please bear in mind I'm new to all this.....

The sort of dog you seem to be looking for is the sort of dog a lot of non-trailly people, like me, also like. Bearing in mind that (according to what I'm reading in the gundog media and on here) a lot of triallers put more emphasis on different attributes and if only dogs with FT qualifications get selected for use as stud dogs (and as has been said - if you wait to see how many offspring they produce get placed too...) then why don't you look totally outside the box and see what's out there in the non-trailling world?

I want proven dogs, dogs who have won in good company. A field trial test the dogs abilities on many levels and gives a great indicator as to their strength and weakness's

I don't like to see gene pools imploding because everyone wants to use a particular stud and bearing in mind not every pup goes to a trailling home nad not every home can cope with the attributes you are looking for, finding a dog that ticks all your boxes would surely be helping the breed move towards a dead-end genepoolwise ( I'm sure there is a more scientific -sounding way of writing that) -

I am breeding for myself no one else in a sense, I want to breed a dog which suits me and my way of training. What people forgot is that Ian Openshaw did the same, but everyone wanted one of his pups.... thats all good if you have his facilities to bring the best out of them. Many didnt.

I think a lot of dogs that are termed 'Alpha' dogs are actually lacking in confidence around other dogs and have adopted a 'get in there first' attitude. The thought of a dog being intimidated by another dog working close to it fills me with horror! Are there really working dogs like that out there? I have noticed a lot of really nervy and cowed-looking springers and cockers, which is why I'm not fussed about red ink on pedigrees.

Red ink doesnt bother me but its a great indicator that the lines are proven and consistent.

One more thing: will all the pups be going to field trials people? As a beater, there is nothing worse than having a dog in the back of the wagon that is too prickly to share his space because we get some serious shaking about in the back and if a dog takes offence to being sat on by another dog (or person) it has no place in there.

Yes at least 5 of the pups will be going to trialling homes

I hope you don't mind me asking. I'm just a compulsive learner!

[Stihl 090]

I'm going to have to ask another question

Please bear in mind I'm new to all this.....

The sort of dog you seem to be looking for is the sort of dog a lot of non-trailly people, like me, also like. Bearing in mind that (according to what I'm reading in the gundog media and on here) a lot of triallers put more emphasis on different attributes and if only dogs with FT qualifications get selected for use as stud dogs (and as has been said - if you wait to see how many offspring they produce get placed too...) then why don't you look totally outside the box and see what's out there in the non-trailling world?

Saves me typing what I was going to type people always want the best, thats natural of course and use red ink to sell their dogs and whilst we all like looking at red, as noted above why not broaden your search. In my mind anyway too much emphasis on using only Ftch dogs

[EssGrouse]

The only shooting dog I would use is Simonside Smithy of Laysan. And that's because he is proven to throw quality offspring.

I think Ryan on here used him, and from that litter 2 won last year.......

I dont fancy taking chances and that's what it all comes down to.

[Naj]

Perhaps it's not the dogs you should be looking at but your method of training. If it results in squashing the softer natured type of dog you tend to get these days then a little 'softening' in technique, where appropriate, would immediately broaden your choice of suitable studs.

Naj

[EssGrouse]

I personally haven't experienced it Naj and i don't want it to happen to me, but i have watched a few experienced trainer's using positive methods have pups close down on them.

These are guys who have won the championships and made dogs up and know how to get the best from dogs....... il just go and tell them change their technique!!!!

[Naj]

Wasn't recommending that you switch to positive/force-free methods & I'd be pleasantly surprised if anyone has used them in producing a championship winner. You were complaining earlier that you had a problem with some pups in that 'when you start to turn the screws it shuts down or takes a while to recover', so was just suggesting that if you moderated your methods to suit the dog in front of you then this wouldn't happen.

Naj