pet gundog question

Discuss any aspect of training you have, ask questions, share tips and advice for any breed of gundog.
ips
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by ips »

Naj wrote:What you really need to learn is how to engage with your dog, because until/unless it is engaged with you then you won't be training it anything. The training bit is easy, getting the dog to engage with you is the hard bit. ;)

Naj
Can you elaborate on exactly what you mean by engage with it ?
Are we talking about dog respecting you and wanting to be with you and to please you ?
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
ips
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by ips »

Naj

Ps
Now very steady to thrown dummy as long as I at least have a foot in front of her. To progress to steady when thrown without physical barrier are we back to the light cord training jobbie ?
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
Springfield Pointers
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by Springfield Pointers »

It's about being able to read a dog, being able to anticipate it's next movement - Having the dog respond to you. You must be able to have an impact on the dog.
ips
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by ips »

I see. So just experience and a connection with your pal then. I do believe I am "engaged" with her on some level as many times I can predict what she will do and I can influence her during training to some degree. I suppose its one of those things that keeps evolving as you gain better understanding and dog gains more trust and respect for you.
I must say I find the whole dog behaviour / psychology thing most fascinating.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
Naj
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by Naj »

My original post about engagement was in response to your 'she knows when I mean it' comment. Does this mean that you now think that you need to be perpetually stern & in an angry mood for her to 'obey' you? If you're interested in dog behaviour & how they learn then do some proper research, but it will bring with it more questions than answers. :-D Forget all the mumbo-jumbo about 'respect' & 'willing to please'. You need to start thinking in terms of the consequences of behaviours, pleasant or unpleasant, & manipulating those 'consequences', because it is this that will dictate whether a dog is likely to repeat a behaviour or not. As for engaging the dog so it is focussed upon you when under distraction, how you do that depends upon what methodology you train by. I use reward-based methods so I put a lot of work into making engagement with me rewarding, generally through the use of edible rewards for starters. If you rely on compulsion then you would make engagement with the distraction unrewarding, generally through some form of correction/punishment.

As for your breaking problem, you only need to gently restrain the dog on a very short training line should it look like it might break, not bowl it off its feet or let it get up sufficient moment to break the line. I manage perfectly fine on 3 feet of baler twine. And if you want to follow this approach then the line stays on until you have reliability, which is going to be weeks/months, not a few occasions then take it off. ;)

Naj
Springfield Pointers
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by Springfield Pointers »

Apologies for answering your question, although briefly, that was directed at Naj.
Naj
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by Naj »

Just had a quick google. :-D If you look on U-tube : The Importance of Engagement in Dog Training by Leerburg Enterprises the guy explains my approach to engagement & how an 'engaged' dog is responsive to training. Sorry, couldn't get the link up.

When training by compulsion, if a dog wasn't engaging with you because it was distracted by something else then you'd likely get it focussing back on you by correcting/punishing the 'inattention' or lack of engagement with a lead pop or such like.

Naj
ips
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by ips »

Cheers naj will have a look at that.

Ps
No I do not consider I need to be stern as such but she definitely knows when I tell rather than ask, not a stern voice but a commanding one for want of a better word. I have always considered that I would train in a way that she had fun and that there was a good / fun consequence to doing things my way, this has proven succesful in my eyes for what I want from her, for instance she now knows and considers memory and blind retrieves much more fun than just running in endlessly for a ball in fact the dummy and steadiness is now her preffered fun. I took your advice and found a food reward to help things along, chicken in tiny pieces works a treat. Have now procurred a long ish boot lace so will now go back to your technique to stop run ins, I don't think she is far off as I can give dummy a good hurl with just my foot a yard in front of her and she is rock solid till I send her out. Delivery to hand is now 90% of the time so I am very pleased with progress over last two weeks. Prob not as good as people like yourself would demand but as I am a novice and she is walking a fine line between pet and gundog I feel good and she is having fun so I suppose that's the main thing for us.
Now were is the chicken.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
Judy
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by Judy »

In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
ips
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Re: pet gundog question

Post by ips »

Thanks judy
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
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