Bit of help please

[westcountry]

Hello again people,sorry to have to ask for help again but I have had another hiccup in training my young dog yet again. All summer we have been working hard on heel work and its come good,sit and stay is really good,hunting and stopping to either shot or whistle is good. Directional retrieves are spot on. At 18 month old I had hoped to take this smart young springer to a local small low key shoot in a couple of weeks.
Then yesterday as I was about to do some training on one of our stubbles he jumped out of the truck,spied a pheasant and shot off after it ignoring all commands to stop. This dog had previously watched other dogs flush and even chase but dropped to the whistle and remained seated until recalled. Major setback and very disheartening as I was almost certain he was totally controlled.
Had him out this morning and his mother flushed a cock bird and he dropped to the whistle and watched it disappear over the trees. Am I panicking or have I cause for concern? If so what can I do to install total steadiness to game?

[Naj]

I'm a bit confused, are you using the dog as a no-slip retriever or as a spaniel? Watching other dogs flush game isn't the same as the dog flushing game itself & being steady to it. Your dog needs direct game contact so you can train it to be steady by whatever method you currently use, but your dog needs to flush stuff off its nose. The use of a rabbit pen is handy for starting off steadiness training, but the rest has to be done in the field on live game contact.

Naj

[deefer+tag]

as naj says - it is different when the dog flushes it off his nose. but it sounds as though you had let the dog out of the car and in the anticipation of 'fun' he saw pheasants as he was trotting around & weeeee!!!! it happens, one step forward and two steps back. when i let my dogs out i make them sit up whilst i'm getting leads & boots etc. Can you do a bit of dogging in for the shoot you are hoping to take your dog on? if so you will be able to let him see and flush and if it does go wrong hopefully you will be pushing the birds back in the right direction, but you will be in a position to rectify the matter in situ. if that makes sense?

[Springfield Pointers]

Then yesterday as I was about to do some training on one of our stubbles he jumped out of the truck,spied a pheasant and shot off after it ignoring all commands to stop. This dog had previously watched other dogs flush and even chase but dropped to the whistle and remained seated until recalled. Major setback and very disheartening as I was almost certain he was totally controlled.
Had him out this morning and his mother flushed a cock bird and he dropped to the whistle and watched it disappear over the trees. Am I panicking or have I cause for concern? If so what can I do to install total steadiness to game?

Personally I think you're concerned about something that is far from unusual. It is good that you're concerned as it demonstrates that you have a goal of compliance. Some don't.

Having said that, it I unfair to expect a dog to be word perfect and not put a foot out of place - especially if it's not had any reasonable exposure to what is required of it, both in manners and the partnership that is to be developed.

A working dog is a constant project and the more you work it and allow it to learn what you expect, the better it will get. It is unreasonable to expect a dog to understand what you want if you only take it hunting twice a year and spend the rest of the time doing discipline drills.

Don't be afraid to show the dog you're upset with it, and take it hunting.

[Stihl 090]

As Naj noted, the dog seeing it done is very far removed from doing it itself. And as you have found out it don't work like that! It needs first hand experience and needs to serve an apprenticeship with flushing and stopping.

[Springfield Pointers]

As Naj noted, the dog seeing it done is very far removed from doing it itself. And as you have found out it don't work like that! It needs first hand experience and needs to serve an apprenticeship with flushing and stopping.

Not sure I understand this? The dog needs a balance of experience and guidance. It's a fine balance.

[westcountry]

as naj says - it is different when the dog flushes it off his nose. but it sounds as though you had let the dog out of the car and in the anticipation of 'fun' he saw pheasants as he was trotting around & weeeee!!!! it happens, one step forward and two steps back. when i let my dogs out i make them sit up whilst i'm getting leads & boots etc. Can you do a bit of dogging in for the shoot you are hoping to take your dog on? if so you will be able to let him see and flush and if it does go wrong hopefully you will be pushing the birds back in the right direction, but you will be in a position to rectify the matter in situ. if that makes sense?

I had told the dog to sit whilst I got the dummy bag from the back of the truck. The dog saw the cock bird run across the stubble and set off in pursuit.

[westcountry]

I'm a bit confused, are you using the dog as a no-slip retriever or as a spaniel? Watching other dogs flush game isn't the same as the dog flushing game itself & being steady to it. Your dog needs direct game contact so you can train it to be steady by whatever method you currently use, but your dog needs to flush stuff off its nose. The use of a rabbit pen is handy for starting off steadiness training, but the rest has to be done in the field on live game contact.

Naj

There arent many places I can hunt my dog where there is game for him to find and whilst he quarters nicely he has yet to bounce one off his nose apart from last week when 2 hens got up in front of him,he stopped to the whistle despite almost pegging one and I was quick to show my approval.

[Stihl 090]

As Naj noted, the dog seeing it done is very far removed from doing it itself. And as you have found out it don't work like that! It needs first hand experience and needs to serve an apprenticeship with flushing and stopping.

Not sure I understand this? The dog needs a balance of experience and guidance. It's a fine balance.

What's not to understand? If the dog doesn't get first hand experience, it can't learn simply from watching others of what's right or wrong.

[Springfield Pointers]

No, I got that bit. First hand experience however is just a glorious chase (which is bound to be repeated) without the right guidance...