What to expect of an English Setter pup?

[Springfield Pointers]

Wow...!You've just become my hero. What you describe here is working WITH nature, instead of only in accordance with human reasoning and the obsession of total control, and up to a certain degree it's how pups learn from their parents, if they get the chance to live and hunt together. Brilliant!

Simple isn't it

[trekmoor]

"Simple" suits me fine ! I am too damned lazy to want to train a pup things that birds can teach it to do better.

The "method" I described Sam is not something special thought up by me. Many people in Britain and in other parts of the world do something very similar. I go out with pointing breed pups carrying nothing more than a lead in my pocket and a whistle around my neck. I use both of those things just as seldom as I can.

It is very likely that any 6 months old pointer pup I am training will not have a clue about sits to whistle and only a hazy idea of sit to voice when they get their dinner. They will have a good idea of what a recall is though. I like pups to be returning to voice, to whistle and to hand/arm signals from a fairly early age. I don't enforce the recall until a pup is considerably older however and has had considerable experience of coming when called in circumstances other than when it is running hot up a birds backside !

I have a little saying that I DID think of myself. It is ...... " Do not train a pup to stop until it has taught itself to go ! "
People aren't nearly as good at teaching pups to "go" as birds are.

Wullie

[sam_from_italy]

Yeah, and even logical if we accept that nature has her own logic too.

But, to be fair on my ancestors: neither in Italy nor in Germany do we have that kind of public spaces where you're allowed to let a dog run free. It's "Dogs to be kept on the leash" almost everywhere. If they catch you outside the training reserves it's a 200 Euro fine per gundog or hound in Italy, plus in Germany hunters even have the right to shoot and kill every dog running around in their reserve if it's not on the leash and doing something that looks remotely like hunting (and basically every piece of land that isn't an urban park, an autobahn or an airport is part of someone's reserve).
I should emigrate to Scotland....

[trekmoor]

You'd have trouble squeezing into Scotland . It is chock-a-block with English buggers trying to escape the rat race ! I wish that Roman geezer had built his wall a lot higher to keep aw thae uncouth English savages oot ! If you moved here Sam you would have to learn yet another language. Few Scots speak Gaelic but what we do speak izznae quite English either !

Wullie

[h&t]

Very very interesting thread, thank you all

[llwellin]

I think I have just been mentioned! (is Rossella writing) and it's funny because I know Sara Chichester and Dom Goutorbe as well. And... sam of course. What so you need exactly? It would be nice to know the puppy bloodlines. My ES has several Mountain Trialers as ancestors but seems to be trainable and cooperative. Some bloodlines (al least in my opinion) are less connected (collegamento naturale) with the handler and these dogs tend to disappear in the landscape
As said earlier, mine, who is now 3 years old, seems to relatively easy to train but she wasn't when she was only 4-5 months old. At the time I just focused on creating a friendship between me and her. Much socialization, much playing, positive reinforcements only (she was very sensitive and soft), many experiences together and so on. I tried to make myself appear "more intesting" than other dogs and other stimuli. At around 6 months of age we started working on planted game more formally but still, without pretending perfect obedience. I taught sit/stay (in the yard), house manners and so on, plus some basic retrieves (with dummies). I later started shooting with her (she could point, back and retrieve) without formal obedience training. She later underwent training for dog shows and I think that experience bored her but made her more cooperative. At the moment I am training for FT (?) with Ivan Torchio (Sami, you should know him) who usually trains German HPR's breeds and she seems to be learning quickly.
Rossella

[Springfield Pointers]

... A rose amongst the thorns.

[llwellin]

English Rose... or as the GWP people say.. "white chocolate"

[sam_from_italy]

Well, well, all my trials and tribulations finished at the end of January, when that little imp of a setter went home.
But it was half a year of very, very interesting experiences, I have to admit that.
In November Kira did her first bit of woodcock hunting with her owner and me. And she did really well. That is, if you don't mind a pup hunting, at times, way over 500 m (so the GPS said) on both sides of you in a mountain forest...
But at least she came looking for us every 10-15 minutes if she didn't find a bird.
We took her again in December and she clearly enjoyed the experience.

What I found interesting though, is that she didn't mind the noisy bell I put on her collar when she was small; she didn't mind the GPS either. But, when aged 9 months, we first tried the beeper, on the lowest possible noise level of course, she was actually a bit shocked. It doesn't bother her if dogs around her "beep", but as soon as the thing is near her own head, she gets really upset.
Out of mere curiosity I tried the beeper on my Bracco; he didn't care in the least.
I wonder, did anyone else make that experience with his older pup?

[sam_from_italy]

By the way, when she went home, aged almost 10 months, she still measured only 51 cm and I don't see her growing much taller.
Still, she's cute.





At home, cat-watching.



Or waiting for cats to pass by.