Heel Work Age?

[Ecotone]

Hi all, I know there are Varying views on the age to teach a pup to Heel. I'm just looking for some opinions on what age to start and methods used to train it. I have a Lab pup that will be used for rough shooting so I will want it working out front as a flusher but also steady to heel for duck & pigeon retrieving. My concern is that if I focus on heel work early the pup will become too clingy and not Hunt out in front . Pup is 4 months . Good recall good retrieve drive. Any input/advice appreciated.
Thanks

[Naj]

Hi, it's never curbed my dogs' hunting drive to start heeling from the get-go, even when I trained more traditionally. If your methods are likely to 'squash' them then leave it till later or change methods.

Naj

[munstyman]

If you're methods are likely to 'squash' them then leave it till later or change methods.

Says it all, Heelwork and hunting are different things, `clingy dogs' either lack the confidence to hunt or are unsure/confused ( afraid) as to what your asking. If your worried, train separately and bring them together once established.

[newf]

Hi ! My past labs and my present one have been trained to be non-slip and used for duck hunting, however, ranging well ahead once allowed to hunt for themselves has never been a problem. Doubt that a reliable heel will interfere with a dog's initiative to accept the extra step in a controlled freedom. I'd say, your problem will be keeping him close enough for shot... more especially, if he gets rewarded for doing so...finding birds.

Expanding on the heel command...I attempt to condition the dog that it isn't a position of dread and boredom but a prelude to something good. That being, a release for a retrieve, a hunt or free hunt.

[Springfield Pointers]

I wouldn't train the heel yet at all. I would spend time getting the dog discovering sin. Given that the breed isn't your traditional rough shooting choice, any attempt to get it to stick to you will totally inhibit the dog and you will then have a problem getting it to hunt. I would focus on letting it get used to hunting. Not even trying to get it to turn or recall. All that I would do after. Once she has discovered game and demonstrated she has the fire, then reel her in.

[Naj]

ask a dozen trainers & you'll get a dozen answers, not all of them the same.

I'd suggest that it's not so much the development of hunting drive that is the problem but what you do with the pup on-lead in the meantime. Most people need to walk a pup on leash on a daily basis. So a pup that has been allowed to tow you about for 9 months or so has a hard time of it in un-learning such an established behaviour. So it makes sense not to teach a pup something (that pulling works) that you are later going to have to correct it for in order to stop what has now become an unwanted but very resilient behaviour.

Naj

[trekmoor]

Much will depend on the nature of the individual pup. If it is a bit of a softy then leave heelwork alone for a while , if it is a "harder" sort of pup, begin right now. It is possible to train some of the "go" out of a pup with too much strict obedience training begun too soon in the pups life. I've done that and I don't want to do it again.
I now tend to err on the side of caution and heelwork is just about the last thing I teach my pups......and it shows !

Wullie

[kent]

Well contrary to popular belief retrievers just love to get out there. I think you need play it by the individual dog but in general if you want close heelwork then I should keep it to heel till its done two seasons with the gun.

If I let my lab hunt he totally hunts off into the wild blue yonder, its lucky I don't want to do walk -up with him. If I did I should have done what I suggest to you LOL he is just about getting the idea of me wanting to push an odd bit of cover for woodcock etc. but if he gets a whiff of something distant on the he has to go try and find it so it takes a lot of attention (that's what he does right picks the stuff I cant find to or get to myself)

To me and my needs a retriever needs confidence to run right into the next county, that don't go well with shoe shine hunting

[Contender]

The easiest and quickest way to teach a dog to heel, is to do it OFF LEAD, at home in the garden with a little treat in your hand when it's roughly 12 weeks of age and the pup still loves being around you. It's fun and more of a little game and within a couple of days, the puppy should start to understand the word "heel" and associate it with something nice and fun so start now, would my advice be..

Natasha

[Judy]

If you train heel-work and obedience to the exclusion of all else, keeping your pup on lead when at exercise for fear of it running off then a close, clingy dog is what you are likely to end up with. If the pup is allowed to "go play" from day one then it wont be clingy. However, set a distance in your mind's eye and don't let the pup creep outside that magic circle, attract its attention, have a game, do a little training then "go play" again then you wont end up with a bogoff dog either. Train heel little and often when the pup is very young, as Contender said, its much easier than letting the dog pull then trying to rein it in later just because you are worried about it being clingy. I don't 'do' Labs but I teach heel work early and I can safely say all my dogs have been free range.