online, off grid and trying to train a GWP

[Tina]

Yes Tina, I did correct Rosie quite firmly when she broke the rope for the second time. For me "Do not correct in the presence of game" ends once the game has been flushed......the dog, if it moves in after that it is then chasing or at the very least it has ignored the stop whistle.
I correct a dog for not obeying stop whistles ......if I can get to the buggers quickly ! On a check cord I can get to the dogs quickly.

Rosie, was a very fit and a very fast pup/young bitch. She could and did easily outrun my Brittany even when the Brittany was a year or two old , Rosie could and did outrun GSP's belonging to friends too, she then became extremely lazy and will hardly run to hunt at all now . Rosie only hunts where and when there is game fairly nearby to be found. She does not "pull out" to find more distant game nowadays .....she never was much for "pulling out." Many vizslas are like that , as a breed they tend to be "close" hunters and maybe not very fast ones either.

This is Rosie and my cocker Charlie with both dogs pointing there own pheasants.


Rosie sight pointing some pheasants during "dogging in "


Rosie , after settling down from an all out run while hunting would move into a very striking and very fast paced, ground covering , long stride.
Even if she'd done that all the time I'd have been happy for it was beautiful to see and it did cover a lot of ground at speed with an economy of energy expended. Unfortunately as she became older, she stopped doing even that !



She was as a youngster a very determined and hard going bitch.....pity she changed !


Wullie

Wullie,

these beautiful pictures you posted came into my head the other day when I was out with my girl. You know the background (living in the woods surrounded by game, early history of free hunting then strict discipline and no hunting till I regained control. The trouble is Fern is now totally over excited in the presence of game. I could never imagine her having the composure to stalk pheasants and gentle move them forward as I understand Rosie is doing in the picture where you are dogging in. Fern whines and shakes as soon as she gets a whiff of pheasant. I want to find a way to get her more accustomed to it without her going mad and starting to chase. I remember your other post about taking Libby to the park and feeding bread and nuts to the ducks and squirrels. Do you think I should try this with Fern or will it only make her worse? She will probably whine and I don;t want to encourage this. I pass fields packed with pheasants as I drive up my track, I've thought about stopping the car and opening the boot and letting Fern just sit with the boot open (on a lead first) and get used to the pheasants being there. The trouble is she is frustrated because the smells are always there but she's not allowed to get her nose on them because she looses control - I need a bridge to game but don't want to make her more frustrated. Any ideas?

Tina

[trekmoor]

If I was fortunate enough to have game around but wanted my dog to be reasonably calm in the presence of game, I'd "work" the game with the dog i.e. I'd have the dog hunt and point it and probably flush it too. I have always done this with no lead or check cord attached to the dog but you would probably need to use one to begin with.

If I didn't want or could not hunt the dog in the presence of game I'd change the dogs focus onto retrieving .....which is one of the reasons why I go all out to make my dogs very keen retrievers.

Somewhere on this forum there is a 10 minute or so long video of Rosie dogging in a few pheasants and also seeing a hare as she does so. She is completely steady during that video but Rosie was a very keen chaser of anything just months before that. She chased pheasants, rabbits, hares, deer .....and sheep ! I DID put a check cord on her to stop the rabbit chases but not for anything else, I'd already got her stopped on everything else.

I apologise for not having travelled down to see you Tina. My excuse is my health. I would need to travel down there and back again on the same day and I would be unable to walk very far with you while I was there. We would only get about 2-3 hours of walking, talking and work done with many stops being needed within that time for me to regain my breath.

Wullie

[Naj]

I don't think the high densities of game as you describe, Tina, would do any good for your dog and is more likely to increase its frustration. Frustration has its roots in being denied rewards, like game, in this case alive but in others dead in the form of a retrieve, & once it becomes established the outward signs are the result of an emotional response, and emotional responses are nigh on impossible to 'cure'. That's why it's better to take care to not allow them to develop in the first place, but you weren't to know all the ramifications earlier on. O work my pups on game from the get-go but I wouldn't take pointer pups anywhere near fields of pheasant or, in my case, rabbits. I want the odd bit of game so the pup has time to concentrate on one scent source at a time, but if you're tripping up over game then it confuses the dog & they run around like headless chickens & quickly get into trouble, often because as one bird goes they immediately have others to concentrate on rather than being able to re-focus on the handler. The other problem with 'fields full of pheasants' is that they don't react naturally & tend to fall into a flock mentality, so at best you just end up herding them with the dog.

Naj

[Tina]

I apologise for not having travelled down to see you Tina. My excuse is my health. I would need to travel down there and back again on the same day and I would be unable to walk very far with you while I was there. We would only get about 2-3 hours of walking, talking and work done with many stops being needed within that time for me to regain my breath.

Wullie

I'm really sorry that your health is not great Wullie, it must be incredibly frustrating and depressing. Don't worry if you can't make it down - the dog is my problem after all. We all have our own stuff to deal with, good and bad. I really appreciate your advise on this forum anyway.

[Tina]

My understanding of the situation now is that it's vital to find the "right" land to start (re) introducing my dog to hunting - and that I also need to learn how to act and how I expect her to act on a given piece of land - the difference between hunting a woodland to hunting a wide open field. The woodland around my house is just teaching her bad habits so I need to find alternatives - with some game but not too much - and then get permission to run the dog there. Not easy!

[trekmoor]

Land with some game .....but not too much ????????????????? I've got thousands of acres of that on my doorstep Tina ! We need to swap hooses !

How I'd love to have the game situation you have !

Wullie