On Edge

[MDP]

I've got a good dummy for teaching blinds. Used it with Walt to good effect. Will bring it with me

Mike

[AlandJake]

How about using the pile method in view rather than a blind initially to convince him there may be more than one dummy to pick ?

The only caution with this method I would counsel, is that a bright dog (like mine) may well figure out that if you keep sending it back to the same location then there's always more than one thing to find, so it may start a habit of hunting on if it is a keen retriever (like mine).

I imagine very much that Wullie has plenty of tricks up his sleeve.

[trekmoor]

I have a feeling that knowing a few "tricks" is working against me with Edge ..... I think that because short-cuts to a decent blind retrieve have worked with other dogs, I have tried to use them with Edge too.
In other words I have failed to treat Edge as an individual dog so he has failed to learn "blind seek-backs " and blinds as fast as I have become used to.

He needs to be doing more ordinary memory retrieves on footie pitches and then blind seek-backs on those same pitches........he needs to become more accustomed to working by sight.

Wullie

[Miesque]

Is one of the standy upy dummies James developed an idea? The dog sees it from further away and is drawn out and gains confidence

[MDP]

Is one of the standy upy dummies James developed an idea? The dog sees it from further away and is drawn out and gains confidence

That's what I'm going to take with me on Monday

[Miesque]

Great minds think alike and all that!

[trekmoor]

Bannatyne's Bog - 10 a.m. - Cloudy , light to moderate winds.

Dogs - Edge

I was out with a lady and her partner who intends competing in tomorrows retriever tests at Argaty. The lady's lab is about 30 months old but still had the same problems Edge gave me until very recently, namely, faffing about with retrieve deliveries . The bitch began to play with the dummies at about 10-15 feet from her owner , she flipped them about in her mouth and she did run-pasts with them and she dropped some of them.

I'd explained the obedience present to the lady two days ago and it was very obvious today that she'd been working on it. The bitch had stopped faffing about and did good deliveries even from the half dozen water retrieves . The lady, needless to say, is delighted with this after 2 years worth of dodgy deliveries !

I gave Edge 3 water retrieves , a single mark and then a double mark with me specifying which of the two dummies he fetched first. No problems there. Good, straightforward retrieves and good , straightforward deliveries too.

By now it had registered in Edge's brain cell that "the geezer over there has dummies." The lady's partner was our dummy thrower and the lab never took her eyes off him and the trouble was neither did Edge ! Edge didn't hunt worth a toss this morning ....... I gave in even trying to get him to hunt after just 30-40 yards. It seems his field test days are now over !

Being out there with another dog present was "interesting." Edge isn't too bad for wanting to run-in these days but with another dog doing most of the retrieves from very close to him , he tried several times to either run-in to fall or to run-in as soon as the lab was sent. He even took the lady's command to her dog to "go." I don't think Edge will suffer from a lack of "go" when worked as a picking-up dog !

We had 6 dummies with us and I wanted to try again to get Edge to go back for more than one dummy during memory retrieves. All 6 dummies were tossed near to some gorse bushes to land among very thick spike grass and then I walked Edge away from there before turning to send him back. The distance was very short , no more than 20 yards but up until now he has always began to search/hunt for the second dummy as soon as I sent him . A straight line out to any dummy following the first one was conspicuous by it's absence.

As usual he did the memory retrieve very well with the first dummy. When I sent him again he began to hunt then corrected himself or maybe remembered there was more than one dummy still out there so he continued on and found one of them. It wasn't a straight line out but he did find a dummy.

The third time I sent him he whizzed straight out and quickly found another dummy then repeated this on the fourth send. I was delighted and stopped at that while the going was good. The lab got the last two dummies.

During all this I'd been watching the lab for much of the time. She is good but could be a lot better so, me being my usual diplomatic self, I informed the lady that her dog didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell in tomorrow's test. The lab was not stopping to whistle nearly well enough and needed repeated whistles or even a shout plus a "threatening" move towards the dog by the handler.

If I'd judged the bitch in a test she'd have been lucky to get half marks. I showed the lady how this could be improved on but warned her not to try to do it in time for tomorrow's test . I still don't think the lab has any chance in the test but at least the lady knows in advance not to expect high marks.

Wullie

[trekmoor]

I took Edge along to the field tests to give him a bit more experience. Once there I entered him for Novice knowing he would not do anything resembling a blind retrieve. The spaniel tests took place on top of a hill where most of the fir woods had been felled leaving behind spike grass, upturned stumps and some very nasty furrows through the earth that are maybe there for drainage ? The furrows varied in width and depth and they often were not easy to see before stepping into or over them.

The test the judges set was simple enough but , to my mind, they were marking fairly "hard." I don't mind that at all if everyone is judged in that way and I think they were to judge by the scoreboard ! Edge lost 10 points out of 50 for his hunting which may not have pleased me but which was about right. He got 10 out of 10 for his steadiness and sits to shot. His marked retrieve he didn't see at all ......he was down in one of the deeper water filled furrows when the shot was fired and he stopped just fine but could not see the dummy being thrown.

I sent him off in the direction of the man firing the shot and throwing the dummies. He seemed to have some idea a dummy would be out in front of that man somewhere so he hunted his way out to it and completed the retrieve. He got 15 out of 20 for that ........it could have been much worse !

I had warned the judge I'd call him up if he had trouble with the blind and he did have trouble. The blind was about 40 yards out over that very broken, cover strewn ground and Edge got to within about 10 yards from it and then turned back. He failed to stop to whistle to be handled onto the dummy so I called him up. There's no sense in worrying a dog about something which it hasn't been fully or properly trained to do.

He lost all 20 of his possible marks for the blind retrieve but taken overall I was not unhappy far less displeased. He'd did what he could do quite well and his hunting marks made sure he was in the middle grouping of all the dogs present ....... I think there was 21 dogs in Novice ?

His 40 out of 50 for hunting was reasonably good but it could have been better ......or it could have been worse. We were hunted into a head wind and I had lots of cover in front of me and even more off to my left hand side. The other competitors dog was hunting on my right and Edge was not really bothering about any whistles meant for that dog . The thicker cover was all on my left hand side and Edge did most of his hunting to that side. I could see he was giving not much attention to my right hand side but I didn't even try to hand signal him over to there.......... I was thinking he might have responded to the other dogs whistle if I'd let him get a decent distance out on that side.
Anyway, I was pleased with his hunting, he was going like the clappers, he was diving into and hunting along the water filled furrows and he needed only one turn whistle during the entire hunt and no whistle stops at all. The main "fault" I saw apart from the rather one-sided hunt was that he made two down wind turns.

For me it was not an easy hunt, the ground was terrible to walk over and I spent as much time watching I didn't trip over dead tree roots or fall into a furrow as I did watching my dog.........I thoroughly enjoyed it and so did Edge.

The "crack" was really something among the competitors today. I was sitting on a tree stump regaining my breath just after my hunt when I heard my name being called by a certain very well known trailer and judge who was competing today. I was required, it seemed, to apply my "expertise" on HPR's to a good looking spaniel pup that had a sort of fringe of hairs running along it's lower jaw. The "well known trailer" was busy winding up the pups owner that the pup had a bit of German Wirehaired Pointer in it !

After due cogitation I gave my carefully considered opinion and disappointed all the other folk by saying that the pup was not a G.W.P. cross ............ but it was probably crossed with an Airedale !

The "well known trailer" then regaled everyone with scurrilous tales about me and my habit of sucking on a thick plastic tube packed with cotton wool and then liberally soaked in whisky as a sort of substitute cigar......... I had to admit this was perfectly true ! Somehow the subjects under discussion then changed to my age and my probable sexual ability due to my age.

All I could say in reply was that it was true that I have more wrinkles than inches nowadays ! This reply got quite a lot of laughs but one of the ladies present got stuck into the other blokes by saying that at least I was honest !

I had a smashing time competing and a lot of fun just blethering today. It was well worth the Fiver entry money.
The "well known trailer" won the Novice pretty convincingly .........even if Edge had got full marks for the blind that man would still have beat me by several points . Well done mate .

Wullie

[Dawnrazor]

Well done Wullie! I'm glad you enjoyed at least, and not a bad result by your edge by the sounds of things.

[trekmoor]

I'm just about recovered from my exertions today now having had two hours in my bed a few hours ago ........and now I can't get to sleep !

I met up with a lot of old friends today from both the retriever world and , to a lesser extent, the spaniel world. A man of about 40 was talking about "new fangled" gadgetry and I mentioned that when I first went to tests no dummies were used. This got a look of disbelief but it is true. At the first test I went to , I think I was about 19- 20 years old, I was a "dummy thrower" but not of dummies , cold pigeons were used. I'm not sure about this but I think it was after about 1973 that clubs began to use dummies instead of dead pigeons ?

My main memory of the first test I went to was the astonishment I felt when I came to realise that dogs could be stopped using a whistle and then be sent in a different direction ! It was a defining moment of my life.........my dogs back then just went where they thought they should .......that hasn't changed an awful lot !

A mention was made today of Placeboards and a certain spaniel personality commented that they were very useful ...........if you turned them upside down and used them as dog-beds ! He added that if you can't get a dog to sit and stay where and when you want without needing a placeboard then it is time you took up Tiddlywinks ! I didn't entirely disagree with him. I try to train using the minimum of gear .........my kit usually comprises of a lead , a whistle, a couple of party poppers and just one or two dummies. Sometimes all I take with me is a whistle.

I do appreciate however, that some folk actually like to have the latest gear with them and lots of it too because I'm a bit like that when I go fishing ............ I am a bit of a "tackle tart."

It would seem that I haven't been alone when trying to get a good delivery from Edge over the last 5 months or so. Three of the spaniel folk I talked to today were a bit worried before they ran their dogs that the dogs would "go wonky" as they came back with the dummies and would body swerve or do run-pasts or drop their dummies. I couldn't see all of the retrieves well at all.....too much cover but I did see a few rather desperate looking snatches at dummies being made.
Other than running-in ,is this the most common fault in gundogs ? I am having no problems at all with Edge's deliveries now but I was in a lot of trouble with them until very recently. I found it really annoying that Edge's breeder "Jame's" had Edge delivering no bother at all within just a couple of days but when I got Edge back again he reverted to doing run-pasts, doing whirlygigs and dropping dummies almost at once. In Edge's case a more properly defined delivery sorted out all of his problems in a oner.........the more "natural" ways of achieving a good delivery didn't work for me this time.

The Labrador lady I went out with on Friday was at the test. She would have had a good score .....into the 90's, if her bitch hadn't dropped and faffed about with the dummies during 3 of her 5 retrieves. She was fairly upbeat about this however for as she said it could have been all 5 of the dummies faffed about with ! I expect to meet up with her again in a week or so and by then her dog will be getting used to giving good deliveries.

The judges in today's spaniel test warned all of us in advance that if a dog ran-in it would be eliminated . I've heard of this being done in tests before but I think this was the first time I've seen it done. I think two of the dogs competing in Novice ran-in and a line was drawn right through their marks.......it's "tough love" I suppose.

Right, maybe I'll manage to sleep now ! G'night all.

Wullie