Stud dog for a nervous Helmsway bitch

[trekmoor]

Buying a pup always has been a bit like dipping into a lucky bag. With my bitches, lab, Brittany and GSP I had a policy that I hadn't even thought about deliberately in advance of matings, I never bred from any bitch that hadn't done well in field trials.

With those bitches I never mated them to any dog I had not seen working several times preferably on "normal shoot days" as well as at trials. I took the owners/handlers of the dogs into account too. Some really excellent dogs belong to people that are a bit lacking in ability when they trial them ! If I saw a dog I really liked that did consistently well in trials without ever gaining a first place, I took a good look at it's trainer/handler and assessed him ! I have mated to a non field trial champion or even non trial winner if I felt strongly enough that the lack of a win lay with the trainer and not with the dog.

With the spaniels I have never owned a bitch , I've always seemed to get dogs. I got quite a lot of stud dog work for my cockers because people had seen them working on shoots. I wasn't too sure about accepting these studs for a while .....my dogs have not become field trial champions ! I ended up accepting matings to working bitches if I knew the pups would be worked. Basically I took the money and squashed my ideals !

I still think it is best to go to field trial breeding if you are buying a pup , doing so makes it a bit less like buying a "pup in a poke." The exception to this comes if you have seen the sire and dam working or if you feel you know the breeder well enough to really trust his/her word on the dogs.

Wullie

[RjMcb]

Its not generally recommended to breed from nervous bitches as the bitch tends to have the biggest influence on the pups, hardly surprising given the dog rarely sees them! What are the bitch's strong points? Why are you considering breeding from her? What do you want from a stud dog, other than a steady temperament? Bear in mind the pups are as likely to take after one parent or the other as they are to be a combination of the two.

Exactly. You are more than likely to get something like her however much a strength of character the stud dog has. Is she like this due to poor socialisation? Or has she been like it from a pup?

Ive been told the whole litter where the same.

[RjMcb]

The trouble with this question is you need to know more about the stud dog than you can easily find out from anyone other than the owner...and you need to trust the owner to tell the truth.
People are right to question temperament as temperament is probably more important than working ability or health. Nervousness can be a heritable trait, and dams also have a big influence on their pups (nature AND nurture) Nervous dogs, in the wrong hands, can easily become snappy dogs. Only you know what you mean by 'nervous' in your bitch's case.
You would ideally be looking for a dog who is bold, but not highly strung. I hesitate to suggest it as I'll get shot down, but consider good working dogs as well as FT dogs. A dog who works well and is calm yet lives in a chaotic household would be ideal! Offers?

Bitch has great style and speed and keen to please Until a stranger comes around then either clams up or keeps her distance
Tried socialising took to village near crowds etc etc No change in fear of people

[Naj]

What's she like when out shooting?

Naj

[romanriver]

The trouble with this question is you need to know more about the stud dog than you can easily find out from anyone other than the owner...and you need to trust the owner to tell the truth.
People are right to question temperament as temperament is probably more important than working ability or health. Nervousness can be a heritable trait, and dams also have a big influence on their pups (nature AND nurture) Nervous dogs, in the wrong hands, can easily become snappy dogs. Only you know what you mean by 'nervous' in your bitch's case.
You would ideally be looking for a dog who is bold, but not highly strung. I hesitate to suggest it as I'll get shot down, but consider good working dogs as well as FT dogs. A dog who works well and is calm yet lives in a chaotic household would be ideal! Offers?

Bitch has great style and speed and keen to please Until a stranger comes around then either clams up or keeps her distance
Tried socialising took to village near crowds etc etc No change in fear of people

If she is like that with strangers, how is she going to cope with puppy viewers and people socialising young pups? At the moment it is a buyers market with people struggling to sell good quality pups.

[RjMcb]

What's she like when out shooting?

Naj

No problem as long as I am on my own

[Rough_mut]

Sounds to me like the issue will be when people come to view the pups, personally I would be put of buying a pup when the bitch seems nervous, nothing to do with working ability, purely as IMO a nervous dog is more of a risk.

I have had a nervous dog and there is no way I would a dog like that when I have young kids. Not meaning to be harsh, but it sounds to me like breeding isn't wise?

[Nickheref]

Very sensible post that Nick, nail hit squarely on the head, the perfect springer has yet to be born, looking for a sire or dam without fault, is bloody difficult, finding one with ancestors without problems in the five generations, I would suggest is impossible.

The one thing you have to be is ruthlessly honest about your dogs and if there is a weakness acknowledge it, it might be minor and many people wouldn't worry about it but as Dawnrazor says, the perfect dog has not been born yet (if I ever get the perfect springer I will be taking a flight to Switzerland as there will be nothing left to try for )! The chaps I cut my teeth with were very experienced (far more than me) and there was no point making excuses as they watched your dog, they had made up their own minds and were not afraid to let you know, you had be honest with them, but they were equally honest about their dogs, these days I think it is called peer review!!

[Rothievale]

I'd say it was a major fault. If your dog is afraid of anyone or anything new then it will struggle to be a well balanced shooting dog let alone a trialling contender that has something to add to the gene pool. Sorry

[pulser]

I dont often post replys to topics on the forums but I am a good friend of the breeder of the nervous bitch in question in this topic I know the wyndhill shona bitch so well and she certainly isnt nervous in any way