Nervous

[hprfan]

Did the dog give any reason to make you believe he had in fact scented the bird?

At face value, if I'm permitted to be blunt, it seems that this dog has developed a little sensitivity to the gun. Possibly to much shooting over him when he wasn't ready. The creeping back to you is a classic sign of that. Possibly you may have inadvertently created a negative association to the shot/run in/retrieve that he associates with the flush/shot.

I might suggest taking him out hunting with no gun, just let him hunt and point. Possibly pass him and flush the bird yourself. Remove the shot aspect completely until he gets his confidence back. I would caution rushing him back into a shooting situation at this stage. Get him hunting with you and build the excitement on birds.

Upon returning to the recall the dog was ground scenting and when he entered the cover pointed briefly before the cock flapped/crowed... alot of the area we hunt is heavy ditches/cover so it is not always possible to walk in ahead of a point but i will surely do it where i can... he hunts pretty well though i suspect passes alot of birds probably due to him anticpating something... he does seem to be ok to the shot so am not really sure if that is the root of the issue

[Naj]

What's he like when you just shoot a gun without any game about?

Have you been doing steadiness training on the flush prior to the season starting?

Naj

[hprfan]

What's he like when you just shoot a gun without any game about?

Have you been doing steadiness training on the flush prior to the season starting?

Naj

When a shot is fired he jumps, not as in a nervous jump but more looking all around so see if anything is falling more of a bound i suppose you could call it. In terms of steadiness training none before the season as he preformed ok last year so didn't think it was an issue. I am now thinking back to when i did steady to wing training that you mention it and recall yanking him back on a checkcord and blowing the stop whistle possibly even saying the word 'No' but that was almost 16months maybe more ago. Is it possible that he now associates going near game as a negative? Btw thanks for the replies guys.

[Springfield Pointers]

I am now thinking back to when i did steady to wing training that you mention it and recall yanking him back on a checkcord and blowing the stop whistle possibly even saying the word 'No'.

[/quote]

What was the reason for that? Was he chasing game when you "yanked him back"?

What is he like when you are out without a gun?

[hprfan]

I am now thinking back to when i did steady to wing training that you mention it and recall yanking him back on a checkcord and blowing the stop whistle possibly even saying the word 'No'.

What was the reason for that? Was he chasing game when you "yanked him back"?

What is he like when you are out without a gun?

Yes he was chasing game at the time, i haven't really noticed any difference without the gun tbh... what i have observed is if a bird sits tight he turns away and if the bird is on the move his presence puts the bird under pressure which generally results in a flush

[Judy]

How heavy was the cover, he's not cover shy is he?

Scent has been decidedly weird round here this year, hunted a hedgerow three times this morning and somebody else twice, we both found birds each time. Third person to walk over a field of short grass to the game cart, I found two more partridge. I don't think we can ever blame our dogs for missing scent, even when we know the bird is there they wont necessarily have seen it and may pass slightly up wind of it, seen mine pass within two feet of a bird sometimes and completely miss it.

[hprfan]

How heavy was the cover, he's not cover shy is he?

Scent has been decidedly weird round here this year, hunted a hedgerow three times this morning and somebody else twice, we both found birds each time. Third person to walk over a field of short grass to the game cart, I found two more partridge. I don't think we can ever blame our dogs for missing scent, even when we know the bird is there they wont necessarily have seen it and may pass slightly up wind of it, seen mine pass within two feet of a bird sometimes and completely miss it.

No problem with cover, in regards to passing birds he seems to be passing more of late so could be as you say conditions related but from what i am witnessing he appears to be 'blinking' game.

[Springfield Pointers]

Yes he was chasing game at the time, i haven't really noticed any difference without the gun tbh... what i have observed is if a bird sits tight he turns away and if the bird is on the move his presence puts the bird under pressure which generally results in a flush

Are you proving birds that he initially points but moves off? (Blinking). If so my feeling is that this dog has had too much pressure when on game (mostly in training). The pressure on game has confused him and the hunting, with this confusion, has now also created a gunshyness issue. Simply, he is not clear on what is expected of him, there is no partnership.

Personally, I would go back to bird contact training and with no shot, and less to little pressure when on birds. Build the digs confidence in you and his role in the partnership. Let the dog work out scent and even break if necessary. The dog has been pressurised on game and is not confident of what is expected of it. This process (bird contact) needs to be better ingrained and confidence in the partnership needs to be established and secured.

[hprfan]

Yes he was chasing game at the time, i haven't really noticed any difference without the gun tbh... what i have observed is if a bird sits tight he turns away and if the bird is on the move his presence puts the bird under pressure which generally results in a flush

Are you proving birds that he initially points but moves off? (Blinking). If so my feeling is that this dog has had too much pressure when on game (mostly in training). The pressure on game has confused him and the hunting, with this confusion, has now also created a gunshyness issue. Simply, he is not clear on what is expected of him, there is no partnership.

Personally, I would go back to bird contact training and with no shot, and less to little pressure when on birds. Build the digs confidence in you and his role in the partnership. Let the dog work out scent and even break if necessary. The dog has been pressurised on game and is not confident of what is expected of it. This process (bird contact) needs to be better ingrained and confidence in the partnership needs to be established and secured.

Not sure what you mean by proving SP, is that calling the dog back to flush what he had already pointed? Also going back to basics re bird contact what do you find best i.e. dizzied pheasants/partridge, bird launchers or just hunting wild birds?

[trekmoor]

If a dog that was once "sound" in the presence of game becomes prone to blinking or to moving back to you then I think the dog has been corrected/punished in the presence of game. As others have suggested I'd leave the gun at home and let the dog find game with no corrections at all. I'd even allow the dog a few chases until it had it's confidence and it's pleasure to have found game back again.

You said earlier that you gave the dog a "yank" on the checkcord for attempting to chase ? That could be enough to cause your present problem if the dog is a bit sensitive. I very occasionally do use a checkcord but I don't yank on it, all I do is hold it and the dog does it's own "yanking." Then I walk up the cord to praise the dog for the self inflicted firm stop.

The last dog I used a checkcord on was a sensitive vizsla bitch. She loved chasing rabbits so I took her into a rabbit pen with about 15-20 feet of rope attached to her by a wide, plain leather collar. She yanked the rope so hard she snapped it twice and then settled down to not chasing rabbits. She still hunted for them and pointed them and flushed them on command but she did no more chasing.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with walking up a checkcord to a dog that has just yanked itself and then not only praising the dog as it comes to a stop and calms down but giving it a very tasty treat. Cooked liver works well , so does cubes of cheese and so does "Wee Willie Winkie" sausages.
Lesser treats may be ignored but very tasty ones are not usually refused once the dog has calmed down a bit. With the thought of a treat in mind many dogs calm down fairly quickly and eventually miss out the chase behaviour all together.

By all means let your dog know when it has displeased you but do it with some forethought and remember to praise and maybe even reward the behaviours you do want.

Where "bangs" are concerned I'd begin again with much lesser bangs , I'd use party poppers and to simulate the gun I'd tape a few to a walking stick and mount it and swing it shotgun fashion while pulling the party popper string . If the dog was a retrieve lover I'd probably toss a dummy or have a helper throw a dummy as the "shot" is fired. If this is done with the dog maybe 40 yards away to begin with and then at decreasing distances the dog may come to believe bangs mean a pleasurable retrieve again . At present it is possible your dog associates bangs with getting a row..........to begin with, if your dog runs-in for those dummies.....let it , maybe even praise the run-in.
I honestly do not think the dog is at fault here, I think you did something that worried it.
Wullie