blinds and non-blinds.

[chrokeva]

I also agree with everything being said but I have heard it explained that dogs can eventually have success with blinds if you continue to run memories in various situations and build on the dogs pictures.
In the book Hup it is explained as like this:
"He sits at the line and leafs through his mental "picture album" of past blind retrieves until he finds one that resembles what lies before him.
If his picture is absolutely accurate, he will run right to the bird, or "line the blind." If it is off a bit the handler must stop and redirect him. The farther off he is, the more work the handler has to do."
Thoughts?
Jackie

[newf]

Some believe that a good, cold blind, running dog is not necessarily a dog that will run long and straight to the exact point but one which will handle to the exact point. A dog which will stop consistently and accept direction to the unknown is the secret weapon on these elusive cold blinds. Danny Farmer, an American trainer of high calibre has given me that impression.

[westcountry]

I think we all do this to some extent, because we generally train on familiar ground and certain spots lend themselves to certain retrieve scenarios so dogs become familiar with them. And we're also creatures of habit. It's just a form of place training and no bad thing at that. It gives the dogs confidence and eventually the behaviour becomes generalised and will stand on its own.

Naj

This rings true,good point naj.

[westcountry]

Agree with everything you say. Guess we like to stay in the area that the dog rarely fails...the memory. It can be scary to both the trainer and the dog attempting to do a real blind. You know how it is...you send the dog on a real blind in a strange area and the dog runs out a little unsure made obvious by its gait, then the pop...you begin waving and yelling 'back'. Dog goes a few yards ahead or worst starts hunting in circles, so you frustratingly whistle the dog and repeat back with the waving...dog looks at you with what looks to be the expression of 'what the feck do you want, I'm looking'. You decide, since you started something and realize you have to convince the dog one way or the other, something is out there, so you follow the confused dog stumbling and cursing as you both move ahead towards the 'blind plant' in the most haphazard way one could think of, until finally, the bewildered dog stumbles upon the dummy. You exclaim a half-hearted "gooood boy" to your dog thinking, thank goodness that is over. So, you say to yourself, "we're not ready for this punishment yet, better to go back to the safe memories and permanents". These being fun and self rewarding naturally have a alluring affect in contrast to the terrifying adjustment to authentic 'blind' reality.

Or, it may be just me that has went through this unfortunate scenario.

I suspect this sums up most handlers experiences and frustrations. Very well put newf.

[lagopus]

Still alive then Peter I wonder where that could have been

[munstyman]

Still alive then Peter I wonder where that could have been

Funny enough Karen it was probably not where you think, closer to home .

[Bang'nsit]

Yes, it is how you teach a blind retrieve but it is not a blind retrieve. It is a type of memory retrieve.
Calling it a blind retrieve is a bit of wishful thinking on my part and on the part of many other gundog trainers.

Wullie

Wanted to raise this subject again. Is this not known as a permanent blind?
Dummies are placed in several locations not seen by the dog but where you have sent the dog before (memory)
Dog is sent randomly to each location increasing the dogs confidence to head in a certain direction and building confidence ???

[munstyman]

People have different names for the same thing. I think it is, as Naj said earlier, place training. Permanent blind for me is a pile of logs above the tide line

[newf]

A permanent blind is as you describe. It is in essence a memory blind that challenges the dog more than the beginning memories of dropping a dummy in front of the dog and heeling away. The former is usually more difficult because of a longer delay while the latter typically has the dog retrieving within a couple of minutes. Permanents are good for the jump into simple cold blinds. However, simplictity in this matter is determined by the trainer's ability in reading the dog's progress of understanding.