sprocker spaniel

[Naj]

It's a great shame, James, that the sport has come to this and people like yourself are getting disillusioned by it and opting to drop out. There was once a lot of camaraderie in the sport but now there seems to be a football element whereby dogs and individual handlers have their own supporters and a win at all costs attitude. I first witnessed it back in 86 when Erlandson won the Championship after a run off with Oppenshaw that none of the spectators could see so weren't in a position to criticise one way or the other and when the results were announced there was booing from some elements of the crowd. Shameful behaviour but sounds like it was the start of things to come. There was less money in the sport back then but more so now and I would guess that isnt helping matters. It's worth remembering that most do this as a hobby so I don't think you can grumble about the cost of competing. I fish for trout as a hobby and the money I spend out on boats, engines and fishing gear is bonkers but I do it for pleasure and if the cost was too much I'd take up train spotting.

Apologies if I'm misinformed, Fusey, but I'd heard matters had moved on from the original unsigned allegation and there has been a more recent letter sent to the governing committee of the KC and signed by some of our top judges and handlers. Has there not been some sort of petition as well?

Naj

[fusey]

Like I say naj here say, seen some letters posted on FB but no signatures on.

[alpha]

Like I say naj here say, seen some letters posted on FB but no signatures on.

It will be like everything else when it gets in the public domain....1 shred of truth and a million enhancements and adaptations all to the STORYTELLERS advantage

Possibly some truth in it and haven't we all heard the urban myths that springers like Fly, Spy etc were added in to enhance a breed that tbh probably would be like the Sussex and Field Spaniels now if it hadn't.

If people like Ian, Will, Peter etc hadn't decided to bring the breed back to popularity then thats the reality..... it would of literally become the dog favoured by eccentrics (me included they are all I've ever had that I gel with my 1st was from Ian in 1997)

A judge told me the best thing that could happen to Clumber's IHO would be to bang in some decent lemon and white cocker blood......it would certainly make them prettier and nippier...but would they then be what the traditionalist want in their breed, probably not.

If you want a Cocker buy one, if you want a Springer get one....if however you want something that look like a cocker and works like a springer get a sprocker. Far too many people want a cocker that hunts like a springer, judges included from the cocker trials I have witnessed.

I for one think that Andy should judge the cockers IMO he is a decent fair judge and I've seen lots (many times my heads been battered by which dog they picked in the placings and I'd been fortunate enough to at least see one of their run very close up) thats why I signed the petition to see him judge a breed he knows inside and out.....and I think it should be all like it says in J Regs the best dog on the day with the best person to judge it. IMO Andy is one of them people no matter what his views are and no matter that a million unhappy people have decided to champion his cause and fan the flames to the cauldron of spite it is now.

And like James so many things this year like the IGL issues, the Lab Captaincy, Banning of some individuals and not others who were even worse and finally this issue with Andy along with the way I was spoken to by people I thought were my friends when I spoke out and said what they were doing was VERY VERY wrong made me decide that trialling is no longer for me.

I hope I am a loss to the sport as some of the trial pictures I've seen this year are just head shots and out of focus rubbish thats without all the other magazine articles I did for them to show trialling and gundog training in a good light.

Bloody hell I now have to find a way off this high horse

[Sgurr]

A judge told me the best thing that could happen to Clumber's IHO would be to bang in some decent lemon and white cocker blood......it would certainly make them prettier and nippier...but would they then be what the traditionalist want in their breed, probably not.

There has been an official Breed Club and KC recognised outcross of working Clumbers, all open and above board, so if you want a Clumber, you have a choice, stay traditional or go with the enlarged gene pool.

[alpha]

A judge told me the best thing that could happen to Clumber's IHO would be to bang in some decent lemon and white cocker blood......it would certainly make them prettier and nippier...but would they then be what the traditionalist want in their breed, probably not.

There has been an official Breed Club and KC recognised outcross of working Clumbers, all open and above board, so if you want a Clumber, you have a choice, stay traditional or go with the enlarged gene pool.

Enid what is the official KC outcross is it cocker or WSS...could be tempted in the future if its cocker!
As they would make a fantastic goose/duck dog.

And if it is cocker how will they make sure of colouring as many & whites or roans are from solid parents just carrying that colour gene.

I'm assuming they won't tolerate any colour from Lemon/Orange and White pups so how will they stabilise colour unless they use WSS?

Which IMO is still lacking any real hunting gundog traits as most lines now are show dogs or crossed back to them at some point? it will just be another posher sprocker type

[Sgurr]

Hi Sharon,
The outcross is with working cockers - I don't have the full details but a know a guy who does as he has one - I'll PM you.
Cheers.

[alpha]

Brill thank you sweetheart

[bird]

The outcross was definitely cocker and a few years ago now, I haven't seen pictures of the litter. I understand that there were pups that looked very much like Clumbers but with black noses (instead of pink!).

[Naj]

I'm a little confused, I thought Andy Platt had publicly spoken out against handlers who had aledgedly introduced springers into cocker bloodlines. I've no problem with managed outcrossing but it has to be above board, otherwise it's duping puppy buyers and giving unfair advantage over those breeding honestly.

Naj

[alpha]

I'm a little confused, I thought Andy Platt had publicly spoken out against handlers who had aledgedly introduced springers into cocker bloodlines. I've no problem with managed outcrossing but it has to be above board, otherwise it's duping puppy buyers and giving unfair advantage over those breeding honestly.

Naj

He had his stud dog DNA tested to prove purity posted it on Facebook and then the whole anti social media circus kicked in is what happened to my knowledge
Of which some of the comments were reported to the KC etc etc etc and hence he has had his judging appointment withdrawn