what breed of dog ?

[Judy]

Who was it who was talking about long backed Cockers recently?

Should never be an us and them thing, every one that breeds should only breed from good, unexaggerated specimens with no major faults, dogs should be fit for purpose as the KC has rather belatedly said. There are some bloody awful Labs on shoots in Kent, how they survive a day's work I'll never know. Seen some really nice Springers and Cockers about but a few yrs ago there was a preponderance of Queen Anne fronts in both breeds. For some folks if the dog works well breed from it even if it has major structural faults, most likely ignorance, not many people are brought up amongst stock these days and don't have the knowledge of what an animal should move and look like.

[Miesque]

Watch the way your Spaniel or any spaniel stands - if it's pushing it's elbows out so the point of the elbow is no longer the back most point on the leg the dog has suspect elbows. Queen anne legs aren't the only issue.

[crackerd]

I'm still a little incredulous that wullie (Bill) started this little foofaraw by invoking the chow-chow instead of the spinone! (j/k, Bill, j/k - no purple tongues but spins do have nice flews )

MG

[Springfield Pointers]

I think the simple thing is that the two groups (ok three groups) breed dogs for different reasons. We all like good looking dogs, but we don't breed for it. Show people could not care less about working ability and breed specifically for confirmation - we know this.

For most, a good dog is a good dog. Sadly a bad dog in show circles is bad looking one.

[Rough_mut]

This thread makes me think of a pals dog. Paid £800 or something daft for a GSD, sire was an import etc, health tests supposedly done. 3 years on, bad hip didplasia, swelling of the spine for a reason they don't know yet and they think it had arthiritus!

Dog has always looked odd, bent back and walks on its back knees more than its feet, or so it looks.

Now its sedated most the time, hasn't been able to climb the stairs in over 6 months and he is nearly £2k down in vet bills!

A well bred dog apparently.....

Get some FTCH dogs into the show ring and show them how's done! Judges had bad press this year after the German shepherd, it might work!

[munstyman]

Get some FTCH dogs into the show ring and show them how's done! Judges had bad press this year after the German shepherd, it might work!

So, one FT dog in amongst 6 or 7 `show' dogs. They all go a round the ring. The working dog, using the correct muscles, no rolling fat, is going to be the odd one out in movement. Do you think a judge, who only ever see's the movement of `show dogs' is going to know which dog has the correct movement?
The KC recently made it a requirement for Show judges to attend working events to give them more experience of `fit for function'. What they didn't do is make the dogs attending do a circuit and line away and back to put movement of these dogs into a context that those show judges could understand. Its easy to criticize the show judges for putting up dogs that are based on a breed standard personal interpretation ( and personal preference ). But if the working side are not going to be proactive in their education, then the blame is on both sides.

[pontbeck]

As a show judge there is not a single dog that I pass that I don't check out for good movement, be it a pedigree or cross bred . I cannot help myself. Movement is true for all breeds, with the exception of a very few breeds, but I won't go there as they have problems which cause them to move in that way. If a dog moves well 95% of the time they are constructed well and fit for purpose.

[Naj]

So why do so many working dog breeds at Crufts have such uncharacteristic hackneyed actions?

Naj

[Dawnrazor]

If a dog moves well 95% of the time they are constructed well and fit for purpose.

What utter nonsense, if, in you opinion as a show judge, a labrador moves as you say "we'll 95 % of the time", does that take into consideration that the legs have been bred to be much shorter and the muzzles bred shorter so as they can't jump like a working bred lab and can't retrieve birds properly due to the shortened muzzle, this constitutes, "fit for purpose"??? Really???? Christ on a bike no wonder show dogs are in the mess they are in!!! Don't even start with the Clumber, hip dysplasia, entropium, so it can't get out to a runner as it's hips won't get it there and it can't see the handler for directions that it'd need as it won't be able to mark the bird down to the entropium but as long as a "show" judge says it moves well 95% of the time it must be fit for purpose!!!! My God.

[trekmoor]

What shocked me after reading up about clumbers was that the K.C. decided the maximum weight for the breed should be 80 lbs. ! Nobody who actually works dogs either wants or needs an 80 lb. weight spaniel. Many male labs are less than 80 lbs.

I've had two clumbers here for training , the first one was a bitch and she surprised me by being a fairly good hunter and retriever but she was still well below any standard I have in my mind. The second one was "Big Ned." He was big but nowhere near 80 lbs and he could and did work. A lovely natured dog and a good worker that both me and my wife fell in love with. Where work was concerned he was the equal of most springers and cockers........any bushes he couldn't get through he knocked down .....often taking half the bush with him !

I'd have loved one of his pups from a quality bitch and such bitches do exist but it never happened. The people breeding dogs like Ned with little hope of ever winning in the breed ring deserve a big round of applause for the work they put into bringing this breed back from the dead as a worker.

Wullie