Re: My Pup from hollydrive Kurt Health Testing diversion!

[Sgurr]

Why wait ten years? - two health tested FTCH running in this week's Championship - Rothievale Medlar of Edgegrove and Biteabout Conquest of Wrenmarsh.
From the top of my head so apologies to anyone I've missed, just add on the name:
FTCH Roanlodge Scott
FTCH Helmsway Hawk of Witchwillows
FTCH Murryeaden Apollo of Nederscot (got a DOM in last year's Champs)
FTCH Cowarnecourt Gaffer of Edgegrove (DOM in the Champs)
FTCH Samsir Babbler
FTCH Buccleuch Pepper
FTCH Rothievale Maple of Edgegrove
FTCH Rothievale Larch
FTCH Rothievale Ling of Edgegrove

In the Stud Book
Tygore Kick of Jarailstar (OFTW)
Buccleuch Imrigh (OFTW)
Tygore Class
Buccleuch Kelsey
Gatekeeper Outlaw of Keldeb
Gaberlunzie Tina of Wrenmarsh
Gatekeeper Joy
Fuselea Barracuda
Fentoncourt Melicol of Arwesa
and three from my kennel, two in Holland and one in UK

So in ten years time, the health tested lines may be the only ones able to mark the falls

Seriously though, if your bitch is line bred, have her DNA tested for PRA Cord 1 as she could be Affected.

[ips]

Line bred. ???

Is this when the same kennell name is evident, for instance my bitch has about four different mallowdale in her five year gen. ???

[Sgurr]

Line bred is often to a particular dog, especially one which appears in both the sire and dam lines. To give you an example ips, I have and ESS bitch line bred to Cheweky Wolf - on the sire line he is great grand sire and on the dam line he is grand sire. But if you push it back further, Cheweky Wolf is line bred to Rytex Rod who is great grand sire on Wolf's sire line and grand sire on his dam line. So you could also say my bitch is line bred to Rytex Rod. Especially when you recognise that Wolf's sire Kettlestang Clipper is also the sire of Moonreed Flush who is also my bitch's great grand sire on the sire line. And as Rod was a very prolific dog, he appears again gen 4 and gen 5 of my girl's 5 gen pedigree so he is there 6 times in her 5 gen and lurking in the 6th gen too.

The advantages of line breeding when it works out well is that you get the dog's strong points accentuated in the line bred progeny. You can also get the dog's weak points accentuated in the progeny too. The risk associated with this type of breeding is called the Co-efficient of Inbreeding. My bitch has a COI of 17.75% which means she has that risk of inheriting the same gene from a common ancestor (on both sides of her pedigree). In this case, look at PRA Cord 1 and Cheweky Wolf is the sire of three known Carriers by different bitches so it is very likely that he was an untested Carrier for PRA Cord 1 (He's dead now so can't be tested). My bitch has a 17.75% chance of having the Carrier gene twice from Wolf - once from her sire and once from her dam - so a 17.75% of being Affected for PRA Cord 1 and a roughly 35% chance of being a Carrier. She is DNA tested and PRA Clear both genes and I've been fortunate that she has many of the positive attributes of Wolf without having the serious problem re PRA Cord 1. With line breeding you are taking a risk to get the result you want. In times gone by, the not up to standard results of linebreeding were culled and particular traits established through the survivors.

The fact that a particular kennel name appears all over the pedigree does not necessarily mean line breeding as most kennels will have two or three lines that they balance to keep the COI at a reasonable level. If you look up your girl's COI on MyKC it will give you an indication of how inbred she is. With COI, the lower the better and in my breeding when I can I have aimed for single figures - not managed it recently though! 13% is the maximum for my breedings, but have been in the 7's and 8's. The COI's Ive seen for Cockers have been in the 15% - 25% range but look up your girl and see what she is. (And get her DNA tested!)

[ips]

Many thanks brilliant reply, most interesting.
I will have a look online if I can work it out as didn't even know that things like COI existed let alone on line.
Had a look on five gen and it seems that we have same dog on sire and dam side, another on dam side twice and I think at least one more but I got confused with all the names by that time

Presumably all FT bred dogs will be line bred purely for breeding certain attributes, yes ??

[ips]

Cant get on mykc page doesn't show properly on my phone, cant remember if I have an account but I must have when I did change of ownership etc

[Alice]

Ips, I know your bitches pedigree. I wouldn't describe the way she'd bred as line bred - on her dam's side at least. It's difficult to say on the sire side.

Anyway, the OP's Kurt pup looked real nice on the video. Some good Kurt offspring winning out of novice this year too as well as the champs qualifiers.

[Dawnrazor]

But if you knew you had a carrier you wouldn't mate it to anything other than a clear, would you?

You wouldn't would you?

[Judy]

Which is the whole point of testing when you have a pup from lines which are known to have a problem? If it means you don't have a dog or dogs which go blind its got to be worth a punt, it doesn't preclude you from breeding a good dog to another good dog, it just saves you making a gross error!

[Naj]

But if you knew you had a carrier you wouldn't mate it to anything other than a clear, would you?

You wouldn't would you?

Wot, me!?

[Dawnrazor]

But if you knew you had a carrier you wouldn't mate it to anything other than a clear, would you?

You wouldn't would you?

Wot, me!?

No, anyone, one of the reasons he was shipped back accross the water.