Successful trainers' commonalities ?

[Naj]

Unfortunately, we've become a nation (UK) of trainers rather than hunters because most lack the opportunity to shoot regularly over their dogs. Handlers like Oppenshaw, who've shot thousands of head of game over their own dogs, have a breadth of knowledge and experience of the interaction between dog, gun and game that is arguably impossible to come by if you rarely, if ever, shoot over your dogs.

Naj

[Springfield Pointers]

Unfortunately, we've become a nation (UK) of trainers rather than hunters because most lack the opportunity to shoot regularly over their dogs. Handlers like Oppenshaw, who've shot thousands of head of game over their own dogs, have a breadth of knowledge and experience of the interaction between dog, gun and game that is arguably impossible to come by if you rarely, if ever, shoot over your dogs.

Naj

That is a great post. A lot of truth in it.

[trekmoor]

I agree, good trainers usually have a very good idea of where game is likely to be before the dog has reached that place. They also have a good knowledge of the habits or behaviours of game. In some situations these people can actually guide a dog towards a "find."

I sometimes wonder if more women would win in trials if they actually shot over their dogs. Women are often very capable dog trainers so I think it could be their knowledge of game that lets them down.......a bird is not a training dummy.

Wullie

[Dawnrazor]

I agree, good trainers usually have a very good idea of where game is likely to be before the dog has reached that place. They also have a good knowledge of the habits or behaviours of game. In some situations these people can actually guide a dog towards a "find."

I sometimes wonder if more women would win in trials if they actually shot over their dogs. Women are often very capable dog trainers so I think it could be their knowledge of game that lets them down.......a bird is not a training dummy.

Wullie

I think this is why women do much better with retrievers than spaniels in trials?
I shoot at retriever training days where the ratio between women and men is often 50/50, you can train a retriever to trial standard without firing a shot for it yourself, you never see many women on spaniel training days, I have 4 a year, there's been 1 in 9 years, shooting over thier spaniels doesn't seem to be popular with women???

[James]

I agree, good trainers usually have a very good idea of where game is likely to be before the dog has reached that place. They also have a good knowledge of the habits or behaviours of game. In some situations these people can actually guide a dog towards a "find."

I sometimes wonder if more women would win in trials if they actually shot over their dogs. Women are often very capable dog trainers so I think it could be their knowledge of game that lets them down.......a bird is not a training dummy.

Wullie

Im a strong believer of this, claire shot over dogs for 10 years before i gave her a spaniel to run. Two years, two dogs and two wins. She knows where game likes to be, when judging it stands out a mile when people dont make the most of their ground.

[crackerd]

Unfortunately, we've become a nation (UK) of trainers rather than hunters because most lack the opportunity to shoot regularly over their dogs. Handlers like Oppenshaw, who've shot thousands of head of game over their own dogs, have a breadth of knowledge and experience of the interaction between dog, gun and game that is arguably impossible to come by if you rarely, if ever, shoot over your dogs.

That is a great post. A lot of truth in it.

Agree, and certainly far better than saying, from indigenous climes:

Unfortunately, we've become a nation (USA) of nontrainers - just hunters - because most lack the initiative not to mention the discipline to train their dogs...

Good to see you back in the fray, SP.

MG

[scot-ish]

Have a very fast puppy of nine month old,lots of speed and style and never 10 yards away from me in any direction. Showed her to a professional trainer and he said she should never be 6 feet away from me. So if I am rough shooting and the dog is never 6 feet away from me,why do I need need a dog?
Possibly the good handlers know to trust the dog and the novice handlers are afraid to lose control?

i was told something similar at around 7 months. probably the best piece of advise i've received - as this dog learned what was going on he pulled and pulled on me, now he hunts relatively close, and neat - had he been allowed 10 + yards in front at that age, he would for sure be a whole lot more work now to try hold onto.

[trekmoor]

I had my springer out a couple of days ago for a little hunt and the first thing that struck me was that although he won a puppy test first time out he wouldn't win one now ! He has been allowed or even encouraged by me to hunt at greater ranges than the trial and test folk want to see.
I think this makes him a more productive bird finder but I admit I'd be in trouble in a "rabbit trial !"

Personally, I don't like to see spaniels hunting really tight in to me. Even in the puppy test he won he was hunting at about 10 yards to either side. He now does about double that and I'm happy with that.
I can easily keep him in to 5 -10 yards a side but now need the whistle too much when doing that.

Wullie

[Alice]

Personally, I don't like to see spaniels hunting really tight in to me. Even in the puppy test he won he was hunting at about 10 yards to either side. He now does about double that and I'm happy with that.
I can easily keep him in to 5 -10 yards a side but now need the whistle too much when doing that.

Wullie

Agreed. It comes under the heading of 'I could do it but I can't be bothered to '

My dog won the first novice test I ran him in. As it was non-KC I ran him in another non-KC novice for fun (they're usually for charity after all). The next one I ran him in, one judge told me he was his top dog of the day, the second told me he was pulling me about and just running around and the third that he was sticky. To my eye, he hunted exactly the same each time, as he had done in the one he won. But that's what makes it fun, ey!

Anyway, back to the topic in hand. I agree with you, DR and James. I am sick of not being able to shoot over my own dogs and must remedy it before next season, as I can see it is holding me and the dogs back, and it impairs my enjoyment of them to some extent, not to have the full picture. I agree that the gundog (or should I say spaniel? Like DR says I can think of one successful lady lab handler who proudly says 'in 25 years I've never held a shotgun') trainer who cannot or does not shoot will rarely have the same understanding of game and rarely get the dog to the same level.

Having said all that, I think running a lurcher before I ever ran a spaniel has done something for my game understanding? I don't know if others would agree. I also spend a lot of time mooching around with the imaginary shotgun as you do which doesn't contribute but is fun all the same.

[trekmoor]

Agreed. It comes under the heading of 'I could do it but I can't be bothered to '

Yup, , I admit to that. I don't think I was ever cut out for hunting spaniels in the approved manner which is probably why HPR's suited me well.

Wullie