Do you approve of his methods ?

[Sam&Maverick]

Nope, didn't like it. The spaniels were soft and clearly scared of him and what was the point of forcing the labs lips onto its teeth? A firm whack on the backside to get a sit is one thing but to scruff an ESS and carry it several metres is cruel IMO.

[Cass]

Hard to tell from videos. I agree with correcting a dog and sometimes that means something physical like a bit of a scruff or a tap on the hind end but I'll admit that looked way too rough for me. That's why I prefer the e-collar for corrections. Much more humane. No need for a heavy hand when training.

[EssGrouse]

If he were a good trainer he wouldn't need to use punishment to such an extent. And Liam, just because somebody films him it doesn't make him a good trainer. In fact I worry about what these guys get up to when they aren't in public given the amount of punishment they dole out on film / at demo's where they are likely to be more restrained.

Judy if you were to obseve him as a trainer and look at the standard he gets dogs too, mostly "problem dogs" you would see he is a good trainer, look at how he approached that black labrador that was just shut off from everything.......Look at his dogs out on shoot days, all well controlled and trained to an high standard.....his methods clearly works for him.

[bird]

his methods clearly works for him.

So what?

Are you seriously suggesting he can do as he likes because it works?.....

[EssGrouse]

He isnt exactly beating the dog is he, grabs it with the scruff.......your telling me youve never grabbed a dog with the scruff to correct it !!!!

I know I have !

[Judy]

Obviously, Bird! If it works it doesn't matter if the dog cowers on the ground when he lets it go, it doesn't matter it a dog sits panting and stressing so much it can't learn. Although I'm not above roaring at a dog or a very occasional grab of the dog for a few serious words, I really think you can train a dog, if you are a good trainer, without going to the lengths he goes to.

Liam, learn to train a dog without punishment and you'll find its much easier, saves running about trying to catch 'em too...

[bird]

Oh sorry Judy I didn't realise the aim of training a dog was for it to try and disappear into the ground to avoid your perfectly acceptable 'scruffing'

[EssGrouse]

Obviously, Bird! If it works it doesn't matter if the dog cowers on the ground when he lets it go, it doesn't matter it a dog sits panting and stressing so much it can't learn. Although I'm not above roaring at a dog or a very occasional grab of the dog for a few serious words, I really think you can train a dog, if you are a good trainer, without going to the lengths he goes to.

Liam, learn to train a dog without punishment and you'll find its much easier, saves running about trying to catch 'em too...

I train my own way, anyone on here who ive trained with will tell you me scruffing a dog is few and far between....What im saying is that he isnt exactly beating the dog up, yes in 1 of the clips the dog looks totally vexted but you could raise your voice at a soft dog and it would react in the same way also.....its just that the fluffy bunny brigade have blown this out of the water.

[Contender]

Now here's something interesting: I've just watched a training DVD made by a top lab trainer who's made up several FTCH's and whom have won the IGL several times and on there you'll see plenty of slapping going on and pulling about on the scruff with one of the young labs that isn't keen on staying on the spot. They also use a choke chain/check chain and it's stipulated that 'it needs to sit right up behind the ears' - I didn't see the chain being slack on the young dogs, really.

Don't think a partition has been started to ban this trainer, I think he's rather popular and one that people gladly train with. So, it seems that it's acceptable that some trainers are 'hands-on' but others aren't? Who am I to argue with the methods of the most popular trainers? the methods clearly works if you're counting wins. I, personally always get disappointed because I'm sort of expecting more sophisticated training ideas but maybe that's just me? Again, me, I like to try and avoid as much 'hands-on' as possible but it very often takes longer time although it kind of only took 10 mins to teach a spaniel that I've got in for training, the stop whistle by using a tennis ball.

Natasha

[Cockerman]

Well said Contender
I have looked at all his video`s , I have see worse treatment of a dog from the CLA grandstand, can,t remember anybody kicking off about it
One rule for the for one, one for others
Dave