stopping spaniels

[chrokeva]

In my opinion it is the keenness in a dog that makes those sharp stops. I trained and trialed border collies as well as Australian Cattle Dogs in herding trials in my past life and you would rarely see a "other breed" or non BC with these type of sharp stops. With that being said my cocker makes no extra steps after I blow her down, stops on a dime after driving into a flush and has very good reaction time but of course the distances are never what your expectations would be from a trial BC.

[WGD]

what's the secret? or is that just collies?

My dogs (lab/ESS) are and have been hard going and stop sharply at any distance... of course if you get sloppy and let them have a few yards when they're out a bit then they'll take it, and then a bit more next time.

[munstyman]

I think the key here is the dog showing a willingness/understanding to stop in the first place to the command. Both distance and speed will effect how quickly a dog will stop once the whistle is blown, and as the handler as long as you understand that you should not expect any more than the dog offers you. However this is something completely different to the dog moving the boundary of the stop to a few more steps for its own purposes
Interesting what Naj said about the default position of BC being the lie down. Whilst during the 4 week house bound I taught my pup the down position, and have found she is doing more downs than sits now when asked to stop/sit on the whistle out in the field, I'm not sure its a good thing

[Naj]

You've also got to remember that sheep dogs are working to a visual focus and often reacting instinctively to what the sheep are doing.

I agree with MM that the intent of the dog is what matters in any practical sense. It's easier for a close hunting, well trained spaniel to slam into a sharp sit than a dog belting out in a full gallop on a retrieve. If the latter takes a few yards to come to a halt is it a better stop than a dog that pulls up shorter? I don't think so unless you're blinded by obedience. Both dogs had the intention of stopping and I'd be more impressed by how they worked for the retrieve than by how quickly they stopped. That's totally different to a dog that is reluctant or indifferent to the stop whistle and needs dire threats and repeated commands to stop it.

Naj

[hprfan]

I like dogs that go like the clappers. To get that I didn't train dogs to stop until they'd taught themselves to "go." Sometimes a dog would be pushing 1O - 11 months old before I began to change the previously taught "should stop" (to whistle) to "must stop." I'd let the dog become a retrieve or a hunt fanatic (or both) before beginning to insist they stopped in their tracks if I blew the whistle.

Like most, if not all training, this was done very close to me to begin with before I gradually extended the distances. Back then , believe it or not , I could , quite literally "run a dog down." If the training done near to me ( jerked to a stop in mid-run by a checkcord or by me having set the situation up) failed at distance, I would at once ,after the very first whistle, run the dog down , catch it and make sure it stopped to whistle. Yes, I was pretty hard .....but only on the dogs that could take that sort of training.

Running a dog down is best done when you know the dog will not stop, the handler sets up a training session done in a place where the handler can actually run .......not through thick woodlands. The handler should not wait to see if the dog is going to stop, he should begin running as soon as he has blown the whistle. If the dog does stop quickly the handler stops running, walks to the dog, praises it then casts the dog off again to hunt or sends it onwards to the retrieve.

The biggest enemy to obtaining a fast stop is to repeat the first blow done on the whistle .....whistle only once and insist the dog stops to that first command.

I get very annoyed and very ashamed of myself nowadays because now it is me that often repeats whistled commands to stop. Having said all that I do think some dogs "naturally" stop far faster than others.......

Wullie

Thanks Wullie, have a 10 month old gwp and to be honest apart from sit, recall and retrieving haven't done much else(though have introduced him to game at 6 months). He is only starting to pull away from me and gain a little confidence, hence my interest in your method.

[Naj]

I'd be very wary of encouraging a wide ranging dog like a GWP to 'go' when this old if you're not very experienced and haven't already developed field control in it from when much younger otherwise you could easily lose all control.

Naj

[Springfield Pointers]

Have you taken him out to a place where you can just let him make a cast and see how far he goes? Most dogs will have a natural range, and you can get some idea.

[hprfan]

At the moment he is at most 30yrds away... always checking in, tbh i have done very little with him until now but am starting in earnest now. Naj, what is field control? I use my dogs for rough shooting and apart from the odd field of beet or broccolli am always hunting cover or hedgerows so the dogs wouldn't be ranging as they would on a moor for example, generally 100 yrds max.. plodders in the purists eyes maybe but thats what suits my setup. Btw thanks for the replies guys.

[Naj]

Thanks for your candid reply, HPR, and no need to apologise. Field control is a pup that has been conditioned to hunt in relation to you and which is, at worst, half hearted about chasing and this is all achieved by 6 months of age. 30 yards doesn't seem far for a pointing breed to hunt and 100 yards on beet is perhaps conservative but I get where you're coming from. If you want a closer hunting HPR then I'd just concentrate on that. Bugger what purists might think, work on what you want of the dog and you'll be just fine.

Naj

[Nickheref]

what's the secret? or is that just collies?

My dogs (lab/ESS) are and have been hard going and stop sharply at any distance... of course if you get sloppy and let them have a few yards when they're out a bit then they'll take it, and then a bit more next time.

Mine are the same, if they didn't stop sharply they wouldn't stop at all, but I don't think it has much to do with the method of teaching eg long line, running down etc as I now make it a very gentle exercise and gradually build on it , once they understand what is wanted they do it at the same speed they do everything else and the distance doesn't matter, it is just the way they are but if you hadn't taught it properly by the time they respond it would be a bit late to prevent whatever was happening that you wanted to stop!