delivery issues

[ips]

No, not in order to inflict emotional stress.
I rarely have her on a lead. I sometimes have her pegged on a long lead in the field if I am mowing or on the tractor but that's for her own safety. Of course I admit I have her on a lead on certain drives whilst beating but I think all the above or not comparable to having a dog tethered tightly to avoid the dog being able to move away from whatever (and I use the term loosely) training regime the handler is attempting.

Just a thought but are these dogs that need force training to hold a dummy the type of dogs that have not been allowed free play with a ball with the theory that to do so would effect steadiness. ??

[Springfield Pointers]

Sorry. But if you think putting a dog on a leash causes emotional stress, you need to try and see the bigger picture.

[ips]

Hi SP hope your well.

No I don't think a lead causes stress per seh but I do think that tethering them on a four foot table will do especially if one starts to prize its mouth open, shove a dummy in then hold its chin up.

[chrokeva]

Interesting to see first hand how some people view this as dog training and others as emotional stress on a dog.

[ips]

Interesting to see first hand how some people view this as dog training and others as emotional stress on a dog.

And what camp are you in, out of interest. ?

[chrokeva]

Interesting to see first hand how some people view this as dog training and others as emotional stress on a dog.

And what camp are you in, out of interest. ?

Personally no problem with anything on the video.

[ips]

Oh, I thought from your previous posts that you were interested in positive training methods. ??

[Judy]

No, not in order to inflict emotional stress.

Just a thought but are these dogs that need force training to hold a dummy the type of dogs that have not been allowed free play with a ball with the theory that to do so would effect steadiness. ??

Entirely different things? One is teaching the hold the other is play retrieving.

The dog that you see in that video is not exhibiting signs of emotional stress, it is interacting with the handler not avoiding him, it isn't turning away / panting etc.. Just because you might not like that method doesn't mean its stressful for the dog, read the dog!

[ips]

I respectfully disagree.

[David]

I think if someone, even the trainer in this video, had posted what actually happens on the first day of hold training, where, to put it mildly, the handler is effectively bullying the dog into taking hold while the dog is doing its utmost to resist, then the comments might have been less favourable or muted. You can see this on u tube and to quote the trainer, it's not pretty. I've used this technique in the past but I wouldn't wish to use it again because I no longer think it is any way to treat a dog, even if it does work. It was acceptable to me once, partly because public attitudes were different and partly because there were no effective alternatives, but there are now and I try to improve on how I train, especially if it means a more pleasant experience for the dog and me.

Totally disagree, you painting a picture of force fetch which this isn't. Dave Lisset demonstrates on his DVD something very similar with a young dog that keeps spitting the dummy on return. No force, just gentle encouragement with praise. He's on his knees at the dogs level rather than the dog being at the handlers level.