Ghillie's Report Card

Discuss any aspect of training you have, ask questions, share tips and advice for any breed of gundog.
trekmoor
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Dogs: Too many and not enough !
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Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by trekmoor »

Ghillie continues to do well with her new owner and he is busy "organising" a 4 wd chair thingy for me so I can go down to the loch near his house with him and see Ghillie for myself.

As usual I forgot this years Valentine's Day and got reminded of it by The Soup Dragon …. so I told her..... " I married you, what more do you want ?" I'm good at winning hearts and minds ! :whistle:

My Springer " Edge" who is 4 years old this month, has now , after all this time, decided to begin to cock his leg ! :roll: He has also become much more likely to seek attention from us now that Ghillie isn't there...…… I have even seen him playing with Charlie the cocker. Wonder what is going through Edge's head …. apart from soapy bubbles ?


Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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trekmoor
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Dogs: Too many and not enough !
Location: Central Scotland

Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by trekmoor »

Ghillie continues to do well in her new home . I will probably visit her within the next month or so. I was invited over to see her sooner than that but I felt I should give her more time to settle in with her new owners.

My wife is enjoying herself sending - or to be more accurate - letting Edge go for tennis ball retrieves out in the woods. She makes it harder for herself though. I explained and demo'd memory retrieves for her but she insists on leaving Edge sitting while she walks on 30 - 50 yards to toss the ball into light cover. She then walks all the way back to him before sending him for this sort of semi-blind retrieve.

She does this because she says that although Edge will sit and stay for her , he will not walk to heel for her. He doubles back at once to grab the ball. He walks to heel no bother for me but not, apparently, for her !

My wife now uses a huge catapult meant for firing big balls of compressed groundbait when coarse fishing instead of the spoon type ball thrower. The catapult is easier to use but somehow, she occasionally manages to fire the tennis balls behind her when she uses it ! I do not understand how this can possibly happen ….but she manages it nae tother a baw !

She has also, without intending to, taught Edge that if she picks up a tennis ball or the catapult in the house he is to immediately run to the outside door and then perform very high speed and continuous twirl arounds that make both me and her dizzy to watch. Edge is now even more of a tennis ball freak than he was before !

With Ghillie now gone the previous behaviour patterns between Edge and Charlie the cocker have now completely changed. The two of them now play together and sleep together in the same small basket . Those two things just never happened before Ghillie left.

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
CockerCanuck
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Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by CockerCanuck »

Wullie, if you will indulge me I have a small story about a dog I re-homed years ago. Baylee was a yellow Lab bitch who was my #1 waterfowl dog for about 5 years. I then bred her to a friends very nice black dog and kept a male pup. This pup became the best waterfowl dog I ever had (yet?). The consequence was I just was not doing anything with Baylee. She was a quiet contented house dog, so when friends of ours old dog died the lady of the family said she really missed having a dog to walk but did not want to go through a puppy again. I offered them Baylee. They were very happy to get her and Baylee loved being Queen of their house with no other dogs.

Because these people are friends we would visit their home every so often. After only a month or so it seemed Baylee had no interest in me but was very focused on the lady of her new house. They were not shooting people but after they had her more than a year the husband said they would like to see Baylee work. I offered to take them pheasant hunting. When I went to their home and during the drive out of town Baylee paid me no attention. However, when we got to the field and I uncased my gun and blew my whistle she came right to my side. We hunted for several hours and shot two pheasants. She hunted only in front of me and brought the birds right to my hand despite the two new owners being right there. It was like she and I had never separated.

As soon as we finished and got back home Baylee's attention was again 100% focused on her new mistress. Amazing how their minds work.
I'm suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog when it doesn't like a person. - Bill Murray
trekmoor
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Location: Central Scotland

Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by trekmoor »

My wife has gone back to using the big spoon ladle thingy for throwing tennis balls and she is getting better at achieving distance and direction with it. I haven't been outside the house for about a week now but I am getting considerable interest and pleasure from watching through the window as my wife continues to train "Edge" and herself at the same time.

I watched her out in the wood behind my house with him about an hour ago and was very, very impressed ! :shock: She now has him steady to throw and he has been taught by her to walk off lead and at heel away from the ball he has just seen thrown. He now walks better and far more calmly to heel for her than he ever did for me ! :clap:

I would enter her and Edge for a Junior Handler of the Year award test if I could knock about 60 years off her age ! :lol:

She does have some odd habits though ….. she wears washing up gloves while training him coz she doesn't like handling tennis balls covered in dog slaver ! Maybe if she competed in a few tests she could start a new fashion going coz those bright pink gloves sure do work well when directing a dog at distance !

I've always said my wife couldn't train a parrot to sit on a perch …………...but she can ! :clap:

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
ips
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Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by ips »

😁👍
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
trekmoor
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:38 am
Dogs: Too many and not enough !
Location: Central Scotland

Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by trekmoor »

The Soup Dragon continues to train our springer "Edge" in her own way while I watch and marvel from inside the house. She has now progressed to working with 2 tennis balls doing double marks or memory retrieves with one of the balls as a distraction.

It is fascinating to watch the Soup Dragons' development as a trainer. She seems to be working on a mainly reward based system with another throw of a ball as the reward. If Edge does something wrong , like start to run in as she begins to throw the ball out of thon big soup ladle thingy, then she continues the swing to the full 180 degrees and then releases the ball. It lands behind her so Edge then has to return past her to go for it and she cuts him off at the pass and subjects the poor dog to her waggling forefinger as she verbally ticks him off ! :lol:


This has resulted in Edge deciding that he will get the ball sooner if he just remains sitting beside her until she says he can go. She seems to be working the approach that means the dog will "offer" a behaviour and - if it meets with The Soup Dragons' approval - he will then offer it again. I noticed this happening as he returned with the ball. He was doing "fly-byes" but she ignored them and did nothing but stand there waiting until he came into heel and offered her the ball - - - - then and only then did he get another retrieve.

Edge is now doing far fewer fly-byes and far fewer run - ins. His heelwork is bloody good ! He strolls along beside her because he doesn't want to miss seeing the ball get thrown ! It's gundog training Mr. Spock ….but not as we know it ! :lol:

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
ips
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 7:34 pm
Dogs: Eze "cocker"
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Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by ips »

Wullie
Seems that mrs wullie is a natural positive trainer 😏
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
h&t
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Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by h&t »

ips wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:47 pm Wullie
Seems that mrs wullie is a natural positive trainer 😏
You forgot the finger :naughty:
Judy
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Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by Judy »

I think you'll find the Soup Dragon uses two...
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
trekmoor
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Posts: 16074
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:38 am
Dogs: Too many and not enough !
Location: Central Scotland

Re: Ghillie's Report Card

Post by trekmoor »

It has been months since I last posted into here.....the reason being that I haven't owned Ghillie since the beginning of this year.
I was out yesterday with her and her new owner plus that man's new lab puppy, now 4 months old.

The new owner is a bit younger than me and he is , whenever possible, a "positive" trainer. What he lacks is simply experience of working a gundog. He is a complete beginner and he comes complete with the usual questions asked by total newbies to gundogs.

Sometimes I forget how "green" I once was with gundog training but this man hasn't even been out shooting and is, therefor, even greener than I once was. He does "dummy work" with Ghillie almost every day and yet she hasn't really progressed from the standard she was at when I sold her.

This, as her owner is the first to point out , is entirely due to him and not to her. She is very, very willing to be "taught" but the man isn't very sure of how to make real progress. He has been going once a week to a trainer near him but says Ghillie is already "top of the class" and all he and she are doing there is marking time. The class trainer is working to the lowest common denominator in the class , not to the highest.

To be honest I don't feel the class trainer "knows" much more than his pupils. He too is a bit of a newbie to gundog training. As far as I am aware he has never won a test never mind a trial..... I don't think he has ever even competed in a test ? Ghillie's owner wants to compete in tests and trials too if possible. - - - - So I think he needs to change his trainer.

I'd love to help Ghillie's new owner but he lives an hour or more away from me and I think that for the most part yesterday, all I succeeded in doing was in confusing the poor man by telling him too much in one big lump ! Ghillie "lined up" for multiple retrieves perfectly when I tried it with her …..but not for her owner.


If I had the time with him I'd begin with "footwork" and body language . I tried to demo this yesterday and Ghillie co-operated almost perfectly …..with me ! It all seems to come so naturally to me that I had forgotten just how long it took me to develop my footwork and body language and make sure it was always consistent. I'd begin again with this man, one lesson at a time, until "footwork" was thoroughly understood by him. He is far from being a stupid man and Ghillie is very obviously keen to please him.....if only he could show her how to.


Her owner isn't helped by being caught between 3 different "methods" of dog training. He is getting advice from his local class trainer but that man is a bit too "old school" for my liking. He is getting advice from me ....but in lumps too big to easily consume and digest. I'm sort of partway between "old school" and "positive only." And he is getting advice from Pippa Mattison's book , which is heavily biased towards positive only.


The trouble with dog training books is that they just cannot cover all the nuances of dog behaviour ....and that the books authors are never there to sort out problems as they crop up.

Ghillie's owner could be a "taught" trainer of gundogs .....that applies to most people, but he does not seem to be an "instinctive" dog trainer.....not a natural born one. I will, I suppose, never know just how much I was taught by experience and "instinct" and how much I was taught by books and by other people. I can only say that things I thought were pretty obvious about dogs from a very early age, do not seem to be at all obvious to most other people. Then, of course, because I so easily knew what the dog was thinking and about to do.... I then fail to understand quickly enough that the dog's owner/trainer has failed to notice the little clues as to the dog's next most likely action.....and things go wrong ! :brickwall:

I was lucky, I suppose, although I had no dog of my own when I was very young, I was interested enough in dogs to take out for "walks" any dog I could get my hands on. Once away from their owners house I began to try to train them no matter what age or breed they were .... poor dogs ! :roll:

I really liked the 4 months old lab pup the man brought to our training session. The pup already walks to heel off lead and he loves retrieving just about anything. I can already see that although at present he retrieves to hand very well, he is very soon going to begin to perform run-pasts with dummies out of sheer joi-de-vivre if that is how you spell it ! :lol:

Again the things this man's class trainer has told him to do had me either puzzled or annoyed. For instance he was told to train the pup stop to whistle by throwing tennis balls for him and then stopping him en route out to the balls using the whistle …..and force too presumably ? That is not how I'd begin training stop to whistle and I said so.

I mentioned memory retrieves for the puppy and his owner said he'd been told the pup was too young to do them. I disagree --- strongly ! Pups far younger than 4 months old can be taught memory retrieves provided "strict obedience" such as sitting, staying and walking to heel on or off-lead play no part in the training.

The pup ended up doing several memory retrieves yesterday of about 40 yards in a field he has never been within 60 miles of before. He did them easily and he did them well. His owner was told how to progress from there.


I "finished" my hour and a bit long training class yesterday by collapsing onto the grass but I still enjoyed being out with working gundogs again . It was worth collapsing for.


- - - - - Well -- - - that was a lot of writing about not much at all but it sometimes helps me to sort my thoughts out by writing about them. :roll:

Wullie
Last edited by trekmoor on Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
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