Adding scent

[Judy]

What would you do if he ignored the stop whistle too - double whammy. As it is you are punishing him for stopping to the whistle not for ignoring the turn whistle...

[newf]

If he ignores the turn, I get after him right away for that wrong. As a rule, I don’t blow the stop to make it easier for me to catch him; I do it on my own. If I blow the stop and the dog stops immediately then everything is cool. However, now that I have him stopped, I will toot the turn once again and open my arms to indicate I want him into me fully, for a ‘touch’ before letting him hunt again. After which, I will turn him while still close, quickly, several times to emphasize the message: turn quick and your hunting is uninhibited.

As a note, in these few ‘obedient’ turns, I will insist the dog touch my hand, so I have his attention and compliance before relaxing my control and letting him open up once again.

[Lloyd90]

What would you do if he ignored the stop whistle too - double whammy. As it is you are punishing him for stopping to the whistle not for ignoring the turn whistle...

Thanks Judy - doing more telling off for ignoring the turn today rather stopping him, will keep it up.

[Lloyd90]

I’m back at my mums this weekend to visit friends so took the opportunity to hit the sand dunes this morning.



Up at 04:30, off we set down to dunes, it was a bit wet on the ground but the rain held off.



We got to some spots about 5 mins drive from home and Ted and I set off, just him, me and the whistle.



After a few mins I spotted a couple of rabbits, but they didn’t hang about and were long gone before Ted could ever spot them.

We hunted up nice and stayed in range and was getting his nose down, not stopping and not looking at me all the time so good news on that front. Hoping with more and more hunting he’ll just get better and better.



He did get up to some cover patches but didn’t get into them (thick cover and bramble that a ferret would just about get into) although he did jump on top of one clump so in future if there’s ever a bird or rabbit in there I’m confident he would put it out .



Just a shame none of the rabbits sat tight .

[Rough_mut]

I’m back at my mums this weekend to visit friends so took the opportunity to hit the sand dunes this morning.



Up at 04:30, off we set down to dunes, it was a bit wet on the ground but the rain held off.



We got to some spots about 5 mins drive from home and Ted and I set off, just him, me and the whistle.



After a few mins I spotted a couple of rabbits, but they didn’t hang about and were long gone before Ted could ever spot them.

We hunted up nice and stayed in range and was getting his nose down, not stopping and not looking at me all the time so good news on that front. Hoping with more and more hunting he’ll just get better and better.



He did get up to some cover patches but didn’t get into them (thick cover and bramble that a ferret would just about get into) although he did jump on top of one clump so in future if there’s ever a bird or rabbit in there I’m confident he would put it out .



Just a shame none of the rabbits sat tight .

Probably a good thing for now the rabbits cleared, at least hes hunting their scent and not chasing on site!

I have a spot near me that use to full of rabbits but some kind of disease wiped them out. (Not mixy). He only had one flush but that's enough to keep the optimistic things associating the scent in future!

Strangely my dog is a lot steadier on rabbits than game. Not sure why however I think it's because hes not had one shot over him yet?

[Lloyd90]

I’m back at my mums this weekend to visit friends so took the opportunity to hit the sand dunes this morning.



Up at 04:30, off we set down to dunes, it was a bit wet on the ground but the rain held off.



We got to some spots about 5 mins drive from home and Ted and I set off, just him, me and the whistle.



After a few mins I spotted a couple of rabbits, but they didn’t hang about and were long gone before Ted could ever spot them.

We hunted up nice and stayed in range and was getting his nose down, not stopping and not looking at me all the time so good news on that front. Hoping with more and more hunting he’ll just get better and better.



He did get up to some cover patches but didn’t get into them (thick cover and bramble that a ferret would just about get into) although he did jump on top of one clump so in future if there’s ever a bird or rabbit in there I’m confident he would put it out .



Just a shame none of the rabbits sat tight .

Probably a good thing for now the rabbits cleared, at least hes hunting their scent and not chasing on site!

I have a spot near me that use to full of rabbits but some kind of disease wiped them out. (Not mixy). He only had one flush but that's enough to keep the optimistic things associating the scent in future!

Strangely my dog is a lot steadier on rabbits than game. Not sure why however I think it's because hes not had one shot over him yet?

Did he get into the cover and see the flush? That’s good learning dog associates getting in with good response.

Not sure about steadiness, maybe just down to exposure?
I know some people steady up to game but never hates or deer because they don’t have the numbers to give the dog enough exposure to the situation to remain steady by memory.

[Rough_mut]

Yeh he saw it the rabbit was a partial cripple. I ended up going back for it and rightly or wrongly trying to catch it but I couldn't do I went back around and let him retrieve it.

Probably not good for his training at the time but I felt it was only fair to put the rabbit out of its suffering. (Was dragging it's back end).

Hares - not many near me but he flushed one on a shoot and was fine with it.

Deer - we have plenty near me and he once tracked on through scent and came face to face with it. They both amicably parted ways. Neither ran they just both walked off.

To me, steady is steady and by that I mean stop means stop but fundamentally this has to be tested constantly, exposure is really the only way you will do it but I think controlled situations such as a rabbit pen etc help? I've never used one but I can imagine the benefit to both a hot dog that needs an MOT on its brakes but also a plodder than needs geeing up a little!

Just another note my dog acts totally different on the shoot compared to walks, logic would also suggest you can proof it on your walks but then get it on a shoot and you suddenly find none of it has stuck because it's a different context?

[Naj]

It has stuck, but in a totally different context. Proofing a behaviour to all the different contexts and distractions that it is likely to meet is called generalisation of the behaviour. The problem is that you can’t replicate, say, beating on an organised shooting day. So if you allow it to behave differently on a shoot day to how you would in the context of a non shoot day then you’re effectively training it to pull/run-in/chase or whatever. But maintaining the same level of behaviour among all the distractions and constraints of an ordinary shooting day is often nigh on impossible for many.

Naj

[CockerCanuck]

Everyone is a bit different and my participation on this forum has made me realize how differently we each hunt the same breeds of dog. It is a credit to how trainable they are and so willing to adjust to what we want. I only rough shoot but over the years have developed quite different standards for what I consider acceptable obedience to the stop vs the turn whistle.

Like recall the single blast STOP is a command...Stop means stop, right now, no exceptions and with your butt on the ground! (Until I got a Cocker and have had to learn to live with a small brown butt wiggling and hovering somewhere just off the ground)

The double pip turn whistle I think of as more of a conversation than a command... just a reminder they are pushing the edge of acceptable range but if there is an attractive piece of ground just beyond or the scent of a live bird I would rather they follow it up than turn like a robot and miss a potential flush (maybe one of the few we will get that day). I think of it as "hey buddy you are pushing it a bit there best turn back soon". Of course if the dog willfully ignored it I would deal with it. I also do what I have come to understand is frowned upon there when my dog turns on his own at what I feel is exactly the right point in his run I often say "good boy". I find I use the whistle less all the time as the dog learns what is acceptable through our "conversation".

[ips]

Everyone is a bit different and my participation on this forum has made me realize how differently we each hunt the same breeds of dog. It is a credit to how trainable they are and so willing to adjust to what we want. I only rough shoot but over the years have developed quite different standards for what I consider acceptable obedience to the stop vs the turn whistle.

Like recall the single blast STOP is a command...Stop means stop, right now, no exceptions and with your butt on the ground! (Until I got a Cocker and have had to learn to live with a small brown butt wiggling and hovering somewhere just off the ground)

The double pip turn whistle I think of as more of a conversation than a command... just a reminder they are pushing the edge of acceptable range but if there is an attractive piece of ground just beyond or the scent of a live bird I would rather they follow it up than turn like a robot and miss a potential flush (maybe one of the few we will get that day). I think of it as "hey buddy you are pushing it a bit there best turn back soon". Of course if the dog willfully ignored it I would deal with it. I also do what I have come to understand is frowned upon there when my dog turns on his own at what I feel is exactly the right point in his run I often say "good boy". I find I use the whistle less all the time as the dog learns what is acceptable through our "conversation".

Good post, i can relate to that