Driven trials

[Naj]

It’s probably true that driven is now the commonest form of shooting. But even on a walked up day you’d be sending the nearest dog to the bird, or the one belonging to the gun who shot it, not a dog from the far end of the line just to make it a more difficult retrieve, and in so doing dragging out the process of collecting wounded game rather than gathering it as speedily as possible, which should be a first priority and is the primary reason for having a retrieving dog to hand when shooting. And having birds that are obviously wounded waiting their turn within yards of a gun or trial official who could easily walk over and put it out of its misery is neither fair or sporting but happens all too often. We’ve become complacent in our use of live birds and left ourselves wide open to attack by those who are anti shooting because you can’t justify this type of behaviour on sporting or welfare grounds. From a purely PR perspective if we want to test handling skills we’d be better sticking to dummies or cold game, or cleaning up our act by thinking in terms of picking shot birds as quickly as possible when trialling dogs.

Naj

[munstyman]

It’s probably true that driven is now the commonest form of shooting. But even on a walked up day you’d be sending the nearest dog to the bird, or the one belonging to the gun who shot it, not a dog from the far end of the line just to make it a more difficult retrieve, and in so doing dragging out the process of collecting wounded game rather than gathering it as speedily as possible, which should be a first priority and is the primary reason for having a retrieving dog to hand when shooting. And having birds that are obviously wounded waiting their turn within yards of a gun or trial official who could easily walk over and put it out of its misery is neither fair or sporting but happens all too often. We’ve become complacent in our use of live birds and left ourselves wide open to attack by those who are anti shooting because you can’t justify this type of behaviour on sporting or welfare grounds. From a purely PR perspective if we want to test handling skills we’d be better sticking to dummies or cold game, or cleaning up our act by thinking in terms of picking shot birds as quickly as possible when trialling dogs.

Naj

Excellent post Naj

[Judy]

A good picker up should rarely see the guns at all.

I don't generally start working dogs until the end of the drive, runners will go a distance and then lay up and be easier to pick, you can almost predict where you are going to find these birds and its easier when there isn't stuff coming in left right and centre.

Dead stuff will still be there and you don't have to split concentration between dogs and birds coming in.

Just mt personal thoughts on it all and there obviously does need to be some interface with guns to check what they have marked but its pretty limited usually, you are less likely to fall out with guns if you arent in their pocket.

old school. this is how it was done back in the day. As Dan says, when you knew the drives the knew where the runners would eventually tuck in. Keepers would go bonkers if you made any movement or noise during a drive, especially when driving greys. A noisy, obtrusive picker up could ruin a drive.

Naj

Sorry to be the harbinger of doom but I can’t see how this can be sustainable or justified, especially in the present climate. Leaving wounded stuff to wait it’s turn while the judges take their time sorting through the dogs raises ethical questions and also goes against BASCs Code of Good Shooting Practice, which the KC has signed up to.

Naj

So, how do you reconcile the two comments, Naj?

[Naj]

I don’t. That was over 30 years ago and times and public perceptions have changed radically since then.

[ips]

Interesting this. I had a conversation with a keeper pal only the other day. He reckons "some" picker ups are way to close to the guns and should be way way back were pricked birds are more likely to eventually come down. Words to the effect of its a couple of runners that he is after not a picker up with an arm full of birds that could be picked by hand. I think his point was to pick pricked birds asap, but to do so you need to be in the correct spot which in his opinion is a good way back from the drive

[Judy]

Depends on the shoot and the drives, every shoot is different and every shoot needs its pickers up in the appropriate places.

[Judy]

I don’t. That was over 30 years ago and times and public perceptions have changed radically since then.

You'd make a good MP... However, in time honoured tradition, a woman will argue your point - you applauded the old way of doing - big error signalling approval for outdated methods. Anyway, I digress.

[trekmoor]

Although I used to compete and judge in retriever trials I still have very little experience of driven shooting during trials. I only competed in , I think, two trials in which a drive took place.

I thought one of those two drives was very well organised. The guns and the competitors stood in a root field over which pheasants were driven but the similarity to a normal drive ended there. The judges told the guns to cease all shooting after about 6 or 8 birds were down and the beaters ceased to beat for a while then the judges told the handlers to pick birds to their directions. When needed other dogs were called into line until those birds had all been picked and the drive then continued until another 6 or 8 birds were down. This was repeated until all of the dogs had been tried probably several times.

The other trial that had a "drive" was a nightmare for me and for everyone else. It was a novice trial and the game supply was almost non - existent. I think about 6 competitors were still "in" by the time early afternoon arrived....but there was no ground left to walk over ! The judges and the keeper and the guns had a little chat and we remaining competitors were all told to stand in the middle of a field of fairly short grass that was surrounded on all sided by woodlands. It was not to be a pheasant drive though, it was a "woodpigeon drive !"

People were sent onto other fields and into woodlands and told to prevent the pigeons from settling there. The poor guns were to shoot at any pigeon stupid enough to fly over our field ! I stood in that field for about 2 hours with my dog sitting beside me and during all of that time I was not permitted to say or do anything to her. For me it was a nightmare because my bitch was red hot and the judges knew it !

I won that trial but I have a very, very strong suspicion that the judges broke the trial regulations in order to finish the trial. I think the last pigeon my bitch was sent for was planted by a judge inside one of the surrounding woods. I had a very good view of those woods and I saw nothing at all fall into there.

Trials held on land with insufficient game are even worse than trials held on land with far too much game !

Wullie

[reidller]

The first trial mentioned sounds spot on, I.an see how it would work well. Maybe we'll see more of this type of trial in the future, as grounds get harder to come by for walked up trials.